Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Poll

CUNY v. CU

CUNY (total est. debt: $40K)
 2 (22.2%)
CU-Boulder (total est. debt: $60-80K)
 7 (77.8%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Author Topic: Leave T1 for niche TTT?  (Read 2583 times)

BikePilot

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 488
    • AOL Instant Messenger - joshthebikepilot
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Leave T1 for niche TTT?
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2011, 11:31:49 AM »
I don't know anything about the NY school, but something's wrong with ya if you'd rather be in NY than Boulder  :P

Also note that its mostly law students on this board and law students as a group are probably some of the most ill informed about job prospects (else I suspect many wouldn't be law students) - in short, ask people at prospective future employers - hopefully you have a solid network in NY public service or wherever you wanna end up - call some young attorneys there and get their take.
HLS 2010

outofthewest

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Leave T1 for niche TTT?
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2011, 08:11:59 PM »
Also note that its mostly law students on this board and law students as a group are probably some of the most ill informed about job prospects (else I suspect many wouldn't be law students) - in short, ask people at prospective future employers - hopefully you have a solid network in NY public service or wherever you wanna end up - call some young attorneys there and get their take.

Slight correction: pre-law students are the most ill-informed about jobs prospects. And easy to spot, too. :)

Hamilton

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 337
    • View Profile
Re: Leave T1 for niche TTT?
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2011, 09:15:20 AM »
With all due respect I do not think a correction is in order.  With one caveat I agree w/BP's assertion that "mostly law students on this board and law students as a group are probably some of the most ill informed about job prospects;" however, rather than being ill-informed, I think many are in deliberate denial. 

Also note that its mostly law students on this board and law students as a group are probably some of the most ill informed about job prospects (else I suspect many wouldn't be law students) - in short, ask people at prospective future employers - hopefully you have a solid network in NY public service or wherever you wanna end up - call some young attorneys there and get their take.

Slight correction: pre-law students are the most ill-informed about jobs prospects. And easy to spot, too. :)

bigs5068

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1474
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Leave T1 for niche TTT?
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2011, 01:25:14 PM »
Law students are less informed so I am included in this list, but I do not know of any other profession that it is EASY to get into. Finding a job sucks period I have friends in every field and some have made it some have not, but they all say it either was or currently is very difficult. I know Pilots, Nurses, Cops, Firefighters, lawyers, doctors, rocket scientists, bus drivers, computer engineers, architects, and the list goes on and on. Everyone one of them said finding their job sucked! The only job that is literally being handed out is enlisted positions in the military otherwise you are going to have to scrap & claw to find a job. Finding a job as an attorney is no walk in the park, but there are plenty of people that do it. There are also plenty that don't find work and if you expect anyone to be impressed that you have a J.D. you are going to be in for a rude awakening. There are literally millions of lawyers in America and your going to have to bust your ass to be good enough to have someone pay you to be a lawyer. The same is true for any other profession.

FalconJimmy

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 684
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Leave T1 for niche TTT?
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2011, 01:53:09 PM »
There are literally millions of lawyers in America and your going to have to bust your ass to be good enough to have someone pay you to be a lawyer.

To be perfectly honest, part of what inspired me to pursue this was my experiences shopping for a divorce attorney a few years back.

I had consultations with three of them.  One of them was great.  He's the one I wanted.

Another?  The big name in town?  A condescending shyster who was one of the most unprofessional rip-offs I've ever encountered in any business, anywhere.  I actually hired him, first, and after over $1,000 in legal fees, all I had to show for it was a boilerplate child custody agreement. 

The third?  An attorney who, near as I can figure, probably billed about 10 hours a week.  Thoroughly unimpressive.

However, the good attorney and the 3rd attorney both charged the same:  $150 an hour.  The big name charged $250.  (And based on conversations with the other two, he had a reputation of taking a $6,000 divorce and turning it into a $25,000 divorce.  He was a crook with admission to the bar.  In another life, he'd have been selling snake-oil.)

Now, I've been around a while and seen a lot of different types of folks.  The big-name guy?  Without a law degree, he'd have been a car salesman and probably not a good one at that.

The 3rd attorney?  Probably wouldn't have gotten anywhere in any profession and certainly didn't seem to be getting anywhere as an attorney.

The first guy?  He found a good calling for himself.  Knew what he was doing and appeared to be making a good living at it.

However, the $150,000 an hour rate?  (Let alone the $250,000 an hour rate...)  If you could bill 1,500 hours a year, after expenses and all, you're probably looking at personal compensation in the mid-hundreds of thousands.  Unlike a lot of folks I know with six figure income, you could probably do that working a 40 hour work-week or not much more.

That's not easy compensation to get.  No matter what, you probably have to take a few chances and pay some dues to get your life to that point.

So, yeah, there are a lot of attorneys, but there are also a lot of bad attorneys.  People are still willing to pay good money for the services of a good attorney.

When attorneys are beating each other's brains out to make $50 an hour, then I'd say the profession is overpopulated.  However, in the mean time, there's still a lot of opportunity out there.

Thane Messinger

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
Re: Leave T1 for niche TTT?
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2011, 01:56:30 PM »
There are literally millions of lawyers in America and your going to have to bust your ass to be good enough to have someone pay you to be a lawyer.

To be perfectly honest, part of what inspired me to pursue this was my experiences shopping for a divorce attorney a few years back.

I had consultations with three of them.  One of them was great.  He's the one I wanted.

Another?  The big name in town?  A condescending shyster who was one of the most unprofessional rip-offs I've ever encountered in any business, anywhere.  I actually hired him, first, and after over $1,000 in legal fees, all I had to show for it was a boilerplate child custody agreement. 

The third?  An attorney who, near as I can figure, probably billed about 10 hours a week.  Thoroughly unimpressive.


To All -

Please read and re-read Falcon's post (and BikePilot's too).  They touch upon some deeply important aspects of the actual practice of law that are very much relevant to law and prelaw students.  I continue to reflect on my own early experiences and even then was annoyed at my own ignorance.   But it was worse than mere ignorance:  I didn't know what I didn't know.  Looking back, I should have been even more annoyed.  = :   )

Thane.