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Author Topic: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University  (Read 12206 times)

Maintain FL 350

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Re: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2012, 12:11:44 PM »
That's good, always better to get your info straight from the source.

So, in other words, your foreign degree will be evaluated and a determination will be made as to whether it qualifies, it doesn't qualify, or if an LL.M is required. The point is, the bar does have latitude in accepting or denying a foreign degree (unlike an ABA/CBE degree, which is automatically accepted). Thus the degree evaluation form.

They lead me to the evaluation form online and said that you have to prove your LLB is a first law degree period plus you need  either ABA LLM or a state accredited LLM with the required Califorinia courses.

A U.K. based degree is obviously legit and should receive favorable treatment, in my opinion.

But would a six month-long online course from Jamaica or Uganda (also common law nations) be acceptable as long as it results in the first degree in law? I would be surprised if the evaluation ceases once it's determined that such a degree is the first degree in law.

I hope this info can be helpful to someone, because their are a lot of negativity on these boards, seek the knowledge for yourself and follow your dreams, when one door closes another open.

I agree, there is a huge bias against distance learning on these boards and in the legal profession itself. Some of the criticisms are fair, and others are based on ignorance. Here's what you have to understand, though: if you seek a path to bar admission which is somewhat circuitous and completely different from the path that 99.9% of your future colleagues follow, people are going to be skeptical. Maybe it's unfair, but that's the price of following such a route.

 

cusc2011

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Re: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2012, 02:06:29 PM »
I agree with you of the challenges that one will face going the distance learning route.  In my case, I'm not really concerned, I'm already established in my career, this something I just want to do without interrupting my career.  I hope to be licensed in 2 countries is my goal.  Once, I pass the bar in the United States, I plan to take the QLTT exams to become a solicitor in the UK.   The QLTT allows 22 jurisdictions in the United States to take their exams and California is one of those jurisdictions. Again, getting a legal education is just a goal of mine but I don't want to break the bank or disrupt the progress I've made just to get another degree and the debt that comes with it.

Maintain FL 350

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Re: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University
« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2012, 02:21:47 PM »
I hope to be licensed in 2 countries is my goal.  Once, I pass the bar in the United States, I plan to take the QLTT exams to become a solicitor in the UK. 

I think that's the biggest advantage to the LL.B. Once licensed in the U.K., you could probably get licensed in New Zealand, Australia, etc. Not bad at all.

jonlevy

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Re: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2012, 08:48:11 PM »
But again I ask the question - is there even one California attorney who obtained a LLB online and then passed the bar w/o becoming a solicitor in England first?

And if you do get a bar ticket, you have a 17% chance of passing according to the 2012 statisitics:

http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/4/documents/Statistics/FEBRUARY2012STATS.pdf

jonlevy

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Re: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University
« Reply #44 on: November 13, 2012, 09:27:11 AM »
I queried Northumbria about their online LLB being eleigible for the US bar, here is their answer:

You would be best advised to contact a University in the State in which you wish to practise in the US.  You can work in New York with a UK Law degree but you have to do their Bar exams first.  That doesn’t require a practising certificate for you to do them.  A search on the internet should give you the answer.

They seem to be saying you can take the New York Bar with online LLB from Northumbria, not a bad at all. I'd rather have the New York than California license any day and the bar will be marginally easier.

Maintain FL 350

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Re: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University
« Reply #45 on: November 13, 2012, 12:07:54 PM »
Did Northumbria disclose whether any of their online grads have actually been admitted to any U.S. jurisdiction? Being allowed to apply and getting admitted are two different things. I wonder if any graduate of any foreign online school has been admitted?

I'm not sure if people realize how little U.S. bar preparation they'll receive in most LL.M programs (as opposed to three to four years of J.D. study). Hence the 17% pass rate (which presumably includes Canadian lawyers, whose legal education increasingly resembles a U.S. program).


jonlevy

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Re: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University
« Reply #46 on: November 13, 2012, 07:53:35 PM »
That was the whole answer from the Assistant Administrator School of Law.  Does not exactly inspire confidence but does indicate that the degree may be accepted by the NY Bar Examiners when coupled with a LLM.  I am a bit troubled that she refers to a UK law degree in general and not a Northumbria online LLB however.

New York is  a strong ABA state - I think I would think twice before trying an online LLB/LLM combo without becoming a solicitor first.

And again I would stress that English law (Northern Ireland and Scotland are different jurisdictions) does not actually equate to US law. The terms are familiar but the rules are often the opposite as here. Additionally, there is an emphasis on EU law, conveyancing, estates, accounting etc. which has little or no relevance at all to the US.  No US case law will be utlized at all. No Constitutional law.  Criminal and Torts will be different etc. If the goal is to pass the bar, looks like a foolish way to go given the problems with online learning to begin with.

On the other hand, I do think the online LLB would be an excellent degree for some one not actually practicing who needs a law degree as an alternative to a MBA.  The English online LLB will not carry the stigma a US online degree does.

cusc2011

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Re: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2012, 09:40:47 PM »
You can sit for the bar in California with a UK degree LLB whether its online or ground along with ABA LLM or state accredited LLM as long as it has the required California courses.  The bar exam is basically your first year of law courses plus the California Professional Responsibility course.  The LLM in American Legal Sudies  or US Legal Studies all have the first year courses that are tested on the bar exam.

I spoke to the California Bar Examiners and the person I spoke to was the person that wrote the actual rules for the California Bar eligibility to sit for the Cali bar exam.  As long as you have a qualifying law degree that the foreign country recognized along with the ABA LLM or state accredited LLM along with the required courses you will be fine.  The person I spoke to said, they get these questions all the time from people trying to interpret the rules that they wrote.  There are several credentialing agencies that the California Bar examiners allow you to use and the evaluation form is pretty simple and straight forward form.  The option that most would fall under is the law degree a recognized qualifying law degree.  I asked all the questions that were on this forum, the questions that indicated that the California Bar Examiners would look down on.  Bottom line you can sit for the California Bar exam. 


jonlevy

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Re: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University
« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2012, 08:08:00 AM »
Before I would recommend spending three years on a program, I'd want something in writing not a phone conversation with someone who may not be there three years from now.  California has a procedure for getting approval of prospective alternative law studies why would you bypass it? Your logic is flawed.

Rule 4.33 Evaluation of study completed or contemplated
An applicant may request that the Committee determine whether general or legal education contemplated or completed by the applicant meets the eligibility requirements of these rules for beginning the study of law, the First-Year Law Students’ Examination or the California Bar Examination. The request must be submitted on the required form with certified transcripts and the fee set forth in the Schedule of Charges and Deadlines.
10 of 25
A written response indicating whether or not the education is sufficient will be issued within sixty days of receipt of the request.

jonlevy

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Re: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University
« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2012, 08:17:26 AM »
"The bar exam is basically your first year of law courses plus the California Professional Responsibility course.  The LLM in American Legal Sudies  or US Legal Studies all have the first year courses that are tested on the bar exam."

Wrong! 

According to Wikipedia the exam currently tests 17 different subject areas:

 Constitutional Law (Federal)
 Contracts (Common Law and Uniform Commercial Code)
 Criminal Law and Procedure
 Evidence (Federal Rules of Evidence and the California Evidence Code)
 Real Property
 Torts
 Wills (California law)
 Trusts
 Civil Procedure (Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and the California Code of Civil Procedure)
 Community Property (California law)
 Professional Responsibility (California law and the ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct)
 Business Associations (Corporations, Agency, all forms of Partnerships, and Limited Liability Entities)
 Remedies