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Author Topic: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University  (Read 12230 times)

cusc2011

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Re: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2012, 08:34:31 PM »
I just finished my first year at Northumbria School of Law via distance learning.  I did my homework in researching distance learning law schools.  I'm glad I chose Northumbria, for the money you spend it is an unbelievable value, total cost less than 5k for 3 yr program.  You have access to online lectures, PowerPoint presentations, additional readings, etc.  You have to make an assessment of your situation.  I have a successful career and make a decent living and still have a lot of up rise in my career. However, I have a burning desire to get a legal education but paying 100K to go to law school is not an option for me at this stage of my career.   If you decide to go the distance learning LLB track, California will be the best place to take the bar.  Once, you pass the California bar, there will be more options to enter other states.  However, once you complete a LLB, you must then enroll in an LLM program in American Legal Studies / US Legal Studies or complete one year at a California law school.  There are 3 good online programs that gear their program for students to take the California bar.  The law schools that offer the online LLM are Florida Coastal,  Regent University, and John F. Kennedy Law School.  They all offer the required courses that meets the California requirements.  I hope this helps.

jonlevy

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Re: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2012, 11:16:14 AM »
One little fly in the ointment, you still need to get a practising certificate if you are US citizen. Not very likely a non EU citizen will land a training contract.  Additionally, the US LLM requires a lot of time and expense.  Much easier for a US citizen to get a 3 year ABA law degree, then practice 2 years and pass the QLTS?

With a  foreign degree and PC, I'd also recommend trying for the Illinois bar which has something like a 85% pass rate versus California's which is under 50%.

http://www.ncbex.org/assets/media_files/Comp-Guide/CompGuide.pdf

cusc2011

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Re: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2012, 03:16:15 PM »
It's not difficult to get certified to take the California bar, California has the most difficult bar exam true enough, but I just want a shot to become an licensed attorney.   I am 40 yrs old and I make a 6 figure income and my career is still on the up rise.  Quitting my career to gain a 100K debt by going back to school is not an option, when I can be saving that for the next 3 yrs.  Also, I make more than the average lawyer working today.   I went to an ABA law school over 12 yrs ago and had to drop out within my 1 st semester because I did not have the funds to attend the out of state school I was going to,..  So for me , this is just something personal to me of unfinished business.   As far as cost, my LLB is costing me less than 5k and you can get a LLM from Florida Coastal for 15K and change.  So, no it's not the ideal route, but for a person that has an established career and family, then you have to make the best out of the situation that is presented to you.  For a person that's in their 20's - to early 30's then, I recommend going to a ABA law school.   I'm cool with the obstacles I will have to face going the route I'm traveling.  I feel it can only help me, I'm already in a senior leadership position for a Fortune 500 company.  I have 2 master degree with one being a MBA from a very good ACC school, so I'm not light on education credentials.

jonlevy

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Re: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2012, 07:06:11 PM »
This is an interesting plan:

Rule 4.30 Legal education in a foreign state or country
Persons who have studied law in a law school in a foreign state or country may qualify as general applicants provided that they
(A) have a first degree in law, acceptable to the Committee, from a law school in the foreign state or country and have completed a year of legal education at an
American Bar Association Approved Law School or a California accredited law school in areas of law prescribed by the Committee
; or
(B) have a legal education from a law school located in a foreign state or country without a first degree in law, acceptable to the Committee, and
(1) have met the general education requirements;
(2) have studied law as permitted by these rules in a law school, in a law office or judge’s chambers, or by any combination of these methods (up to one year of legal education credit may be awarded for foreign law study completed); and
(3) have passed the First-Year Law Students' Examination in accordance with these rules and Committee policies.

Assuming you can convince the Bar examiners your online LLB qualifies at the very least you are looking at a year of law school in the US acceptable to the Examiners.  An online LLM degree may or may not satisfy the Bar Examiners.  The plan rests on the Bar examiners accepting the LLB which is at their discretion.  Somehow I think Cal Bar Examiners might balk at a foreign distance learning program.  You see, bar Examiners are gatekeepers, just because they can do something does not mean they will.

I would be concerned that if you are a US citizen or resident, the Cal Bar Examiners would view this plan as a dodge of their own distance learning regime and the FYLSE.
If this is uncharted territory, then this procedure is highly advised:

Rule 4.33 Evaluation of study completed or contemplated
An applicant may request that the Committee determine whether general or legal education contemplated or completed by the applicant meets the eligibility requirements of these rules for beginning the study of law, the First-Year Law Students’ Examination or the California Bar Examination. The request must be submitted on the required form with certified transcripts and the fee set forth in the Schedule of Charges and Deadlines.
10 of 25
A written response indicating whether or not the education is sufficient will be issued within sixty days of receipt of the request.

jonlevy

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cusc2011

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Re: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2012, 11:52:14 PM »
I have met several people in my reserach that have gone the distance learning foreign track and 2 recent graduates of this track that are currently studying for the California bar.  I read a lot of messages on this board and its real funny to me that most people on this board is negative.  I know the rules and have done my research.  Thanks for your input.  Education is what you make of it, I'm already living proof of that, life includes obstacles, and I'm up for any challenge that comes my way.


cusc2011

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Re: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2012, 12:26:41 AM »
John F. Kennedy, Florida Coastal, and Regent all gear their online LLM program in American Legal Studies for the California bar.  Look at their course curriculum, they all have the same courses and all 3 programs offer California Professional Responsibility course and 2 of the schools are not even located in California.  FCSL and JFK both have on their web-site that students that complete their online LLM in American Legal Studies are eligible to sit for the California Bar.  Regent doesn't make this claim but if you look at their online curriculum the California Professional course is there, so  a Virginia Law School has a California course in their curriculum.  There are other states like Wisconsin that will let a person sit with an LLM in American Legal Studies but it has to be completed on ground in a classroom setting.   New York it has to be on ground plus your LLB needs to be on ground as well. 

However, California has always been liberal, its the home of distance learning and corespondent schools.   JFK is a California Law school and their online LLM program in United States Legal studies, a non ABA school meets the requirements for LLB graduates to take the bar in California.

jonlevy

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Re: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2012, 09:33:31 AM »
My point is that the prudent thing to do is use Rule 4.33 to ensure that the proposed course of study is acceptable to the bar and register as a law student.  I am an online law school grad and work in online education, students fail to realize that bar examiners are incredibly hostile to online education.  The Bar is not your friend and if a rule can be construed against you, it often is.  As for the California Bar being "liberal", it is different alright, but just as rule oriented as any other bar. 

cusc2011

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Re: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2012, 02:31:09 PM »
Below is the most current  and accurate information for those who have a foreign law degree.  This comes straight from the California bar examiners.

http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=1tegD1eQse0%3d&tabid=2267

jonlevy

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Re: Alternative to University of London - Northumbria University
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2012, 04:39:30 PM »
Only difference between the LLB and the JD, is that the LLB is an undergraduate degree.

But:

"Obtain from a credential evaluation service approved by the
Committee a certificate that the applicant’s first degree in law is
substantially equivalent to a Juris Doctor degree awarded by a law
school approved by the American Bar Association or accredited by the
Committee"

Since no correspondece or distance learning JD is approved by the ABA or accredited by the CalBar (the California ones are registered not accredited) , I wonder how a distance leaning LLB will go down?