Law School Discussion

HELP! T3 to University of Arizona ...worth it?

Re: HELP! T3 to University of Arizona ...worth it?
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2011, 12:00:49 AM »
No school jumped up or down 20-30 spots, and, in any case, it doesn't matter much.

Nebraska from unranked tier 3 in 2010 to #84 in 2011, but not just any #84 rank a TWELEVE way tie for 84th place. I donít even know how you can have a twelve way tie for 84th place, but they managed to do it. 

LSU went from 75 into this twelve way tie for 84th place. So it is not quite clear if LSU went from 75 to the 96th or 84th school because there is a twelve way tie for the prestigious honor of 84th place.

Kansas went from 65 in 2010 to a simple 5 way tie for 79th place.

Catholic went from a 4 way tie for 94th place in 2010 up to a 5 way tie for 79th place in 2011.

LMU from 71 in 2010 to 54 in 2011.
Emory from #20 to a 4 way tie to #30 yes a five way tie for 30th place. Emory, Fordham, UNC, University of Washington. 

Where's the 20-30 ranking jump? That's what you said, yes?

I ask for a jump of the size you're claiming and you're unable to provide a single one.

-Arizona probably will not impress in L.A. for example. UCLA, USC, are already there not to mention Pepperdine, LMU, Southwestern, also already in L.A.

So, because there are lots of law schools in L.A., Arizona is equivalent to random T3?

Again, you just don't know what you're talking about. As someone who strongly considered going to AZ, I did plenty of research: the top of the Arizona class can get into L.A. firms. No, they're not UCLA/USC (not even close, really); but they will do much, much better than some random T3.


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Re: HELP! T3 to University of Arizona ...worth it?
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2011, 09:23:19 AM »
Nebraska was unranked and moved to 84 was it the 104th best? 108th best? nobody knows. So it was at a minimum a jump of 17 spots, because it had to be 101 or lower last year. If it was 104th then yes it would have been a 20 point jump, but nobody knows.

LSU went from 75 to a 12 way tie for 84th. So if LSU is the 11th or 12th best 84th school it would then be 95 or 96th best. That would result in a 20 to 21 rank decrease depending on what number 84 rank it is.

Catholic went from 94th to a 5 way tie for 79th place. If it is considered the best in the 5 way tie for 79th place it would technically be 74th making it a 20 point jump.

Kansas 65 to a 5 way tie for 79. If it is the worst of the schools ranked 79 it is a drop of 19 spots which is pretty close to 20.

Loyola Marymount jumped 71 to 54 = 17 spots  which again is pretty close to 20.

On Lawschooltransparency that records actually salary numbers UA is not doing much better than anyone else.  Only 30% of the class has a reported salary.

Chapman a tier 3 in L.A. actually has more reportable salaries than UA.

O'Melveny & Myers a top law firm in L.A. has 6 associates from UA.

Southwestern a tier 3 has 14.

Then of course elite schools like UCLA have to many employed there to count.

White & Case another pretty big firm has nobody employed from Arizona.

They do have one Southwestern Grad tier 3.

Even one Golden Gate Grad tier 4.

Then with an Elite School like Harvard to many to count.

Arizona is not a school that is going to have people jumping through hoops. It is the 43rd best school in the country in a state few people have any desire to visit or deal with. In Arizona I am sure it works fine, but there are elite schools the T14 basically and there are the rest. Nobody will be that impressed that someone attended a low tier 1 or tier 2 school. Particularly if you are in a location nobody has any familiarity with. I cannot imagine a law firm in L.A. saying instead of going to interview at UCLA, USC, Harvard, Yale, and all the local L.A.  schools what we really need to do is get OCI setup in Tucson Arizona. We can go out of our way to talk to people at the 43rd best school. I would think that same logic would apply to all the major markets. Unless you are a stud at Arizona and in the top of the class at UA you are really nothing more than 143rd best student at the 43rd best school in a state few people have familiarity with. This person would be approximately the 9,000 best law school graduate that year. Nobody  outside of Arizona is going to hunt down the 9,000 best law school graduate.  Instead it will simply come down to the individual and their particular accomplishments. Now this is only my opinion I could easily be 100% wrong, but it makes some sense.

If you want to put a lot of faith in the rankings go for it, but in my opinion they are scam. You can think what you want, but to me there are Elite Schools i.e. Harvard, Yale, UCLA etc and you will see these grads employed in high numbers at any firm. Arizona is 43rd best this year and it is very possible they could sink to a 12 way tie for 61st next year. Then fall into a 12 way tie for 83rd place by the time the OP graduates.

All I have done is use actual facts and numbers to support what I am saying yet you continually attack. If you have anything productive to add to the thread that would be great.  All you have said is I don't know what I am talking about and provided nothing of any substance.  If you have any type of fact to support what you are saying that would be great. Again, it is very possible I am wrong I am a law student like you with a tremendous amount to learn about the legal profession. Now Arizona is a good school, but in my opinion it might be better to stay at a tier 3.  Odds are the OP can negotiate scholarship money with their current school and save upwards of 50-75k in debt. They can also join a journal, law review, moot court team, etc. Doing all these things would probably be more intriguing than being in the middle of the class at the 43rd best school. That again is nothing more than my opinion.

Again in my 2nd year law student opinion, which is not really worth much there are elite schools and there are non-elite schools. Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc are ELITE.  Arizona, Hastings, Santa Clara, Kentucky, Brooklyn, etc are not in the top 20 and are not elite and as a result do not open many more doors than a tier 3, tier 4. Look at

Arizona State I think is tier 1 or high tier 2. 30% of their class has a reportable salary.

Creighton a tier 3 I believe has approximately the same numbers.

Harvard an elite school has 85% accounted for.

The reality is if you go to a low tier 1 mid level tier 2 you are going to pay a lot more money and unless you are in the top 20% of the class it won't open many more doors. Then lets be real if the Valedictorian of New York Law School that published law review articles and won a mock trial competition is competing against a UA grad that finished in the middle of the class the NYLS grad will probably get the job.

Again if you want to put all your faith in the rankings you can. Both me and you are STUDENTS and neither of us really know anything. I am just offering some reasoning and a few facts to the OP, which should be taken with a major grain of salt. If you have anything to support what you are saying knock yourself out. Maybe you are right and feel free to disprove or discredit everything I said above.

Re: HELP! T3 to University of Arizona ...worth it?
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2012, 08:49:14 AM »
Go ASU.  Any other advice or prevarication is meaningless.  Pick ASU.


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Re: HELP! T3 to University of Arizona ...worth it?
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2012, 09:52:46 AM »
I'm sorry if this is repetitive.  I scanned this thread but didn't really soak it in.

After a long and nasty job hunt that ended in finding a good job in my home state (I went to school in another state), I really feel that location is everything.  Not only does going to ASU help you with Arizona employers, but being in Arizona for your 2L and 3L years will help you an awful lot if your goal is to stay in Arizona.