Whittier, La Verne and Thomas Jefferson

[cafe au lait]

Hi,

I was thinking of going to one of these 3 schools. Any perspective on which school would offer better job prospects?

Thank you for any input guys!

[lawstudent2011]

Well, Whittier has a 51% 1L attrition rate(almost TWICE that of cooley and other T-4's)

If you want a majority chance of not being there as a 2L, go there.
If not, then anywhere else.

[Kurt Cobain]

Whittier's attrition rate is only like 31% according to the current LSAC data. The fail out rate is only 12 or 13%. Most of their attrition was due to transferring. I think the previous poster is citing old information.

[bigs5068]

Whitter's attrition was 30% last year and 10% of that was due to transfer. 20% were academically disqualified. Those three schools are roughly equal, but Thomas Jefferson might open the most doors, because it is in a less competitive market than L.A. Thomas Jefferson competes with California Western and University of San Diego, which are not Harvard or Yale. If you want to live in S.D. then Thomas Jefferson would probably be best.

Whittier has to compete with UCLA, USC, Pepperdine, Loyola Marymount, Chapman, Southwestern, Western State, La Verne, and the numerous CBA schools in L.A. On top of that a lot more people from Stanford, Berkeley, Harvard, Yale, etc will move to L.A. than San Diego so it is just more competitive. La Verne is in Ontario, which is not that great of a place. There is nothing there, but if you wanted to work in that area in the middle of nowhere then you might find work, but the same thing I wrote above applies.

If any of them offer you scholarship money then I would take that. Although I am not sure if La Verne has been officially ABA approved, which raises some red flags.

[Kurt Cobain]

Whitter's attrition was 30% last year and 10% of that was due to transfer. 20% were academically disqualified.

Hey, JW where you got this information from. Is this newer than the data currently on LSAC? Because according to what's on LSAC there were 20 academic disqualifications, and 29 for other reasons, which was 31.2% of the class. This means that there were 156 people in the class, so the academic disqualification rate was 20/156, which is 12.8%. The only reason I ask and that I checked this so carefully is because I'm strongly considering Whittier for next year, and I've heard some things about the flunk out rate being high.

[bigs5068]

Academic Other Total
# # # %
1st year Academic 38  Other 23 Total  61 30.3%

I got it from LSAC, but maybe you are looking at the more current report. In all honestly I attended a tier 4 where and everybody claimed they kick out half the class etc. However, that is b.s. if you do the work at any ABA school they will keep you around. If they don't think you can pass the bar they have an obligation to you and to their school to get rid of you, but if you are capable and most students who are admitted are if they put in the work you will not get disqualified. It amazed how lazy some people were in my first year class and although they were intelligent they got the boot. I really don't think attrition is something to worry about unless you plan on spending 100k on not working your hardest. I might be wrong, but look at Whitter's handbook and see what the curve is and what the minimum GPA at the end of your first year needs to be. After looking at the handbook of my school I realized tehre was no mandatory fail out rate, but if you are pulling straigh C-'s in law school your not going to pass the bar and they got to get rid of you. However, I don't think anyone was requierd to get a C-. If everyone did a competent job, but they scored the lowest they would get a C+, which according to my school's handbook means acceptable, but needs improvement. The handbook says you will only give a C+ or higher if you think the student can pass the bar. If everyone can pass the bar then the school's attrition rate stays low, their bar passage rate stays high, and they collect money from more students. So no school has any incentive to kick people out.

[lawstudent2011]

Honestly, if those are your three main options, I'd recommend you apply to JFK.

[bigs5068]

I would not recommend that. JFK is a CBA school that is roughly as expensive as most ABA schools. Not to mention JFK is in San Francisco seems like the OP wants to be in Southern California based on the schools they applied to. You should almost always go to an ABA school before a state certified one, but there are rare exceptions when it makes more sense. To the OP you will hear a lot of b.s. about tier 4 schools from people that have never even attended law school, but remember those who know the least know it the loudest.

ABA schools are approved by the ABA, which although it has problems is a respectable organization. Any ABA school will give you the tools to succeed and I know judges that went to Whittier and make decisions that make or break Harvard grads cases. Your skills as an attorney in your career are what will make or break you. It sure helps to go to Harvard etc, but it is not the end all be all. Just be wary of taking anything seriously anyone says on these anonymous boards. It is real easy for people to make sh** up and people often do.

Talk to lawyers in L.A. and see what people actually in the profession have to say. I did that before attending my school and just e-mailed lawyers from firms. Many responded back with really good advice. Most are happy to talk to a 0L and talk about what they know. Lawyers love to talk is talk will often be stoked to  tell you their experience with law school etc.

Bottom line is honestly any of those schools will be fine if you put the work in. I don't think tier 4's are anybody's top choice, but it is very difficult to get into any ABA school and if you can accepted, get through all of it, work your ass off then you can have a successful legal career. This does mean you will have a successful career, but you have a 0% chance of being a lawyer without going to law school. If it is really something you want to do go for it knock it out and kick some a**. Good luck to you.

[lawstudent2011]

True, but if they only plan to practice in CA, then they could save a bucket load of money and just go here

http://www.cslawschool.com/csls07.htm

[bigs5068]

They would save a lot of money, but paying for the ABA tag is generally a good investment. Many positions require you graduate from an ABA school. JAG is an example of that you simply cannot do it unless you go to an ABA school. I am going to throw out a B-Ball analogy for the hell of it. CBA schools are like the NBDL it is basketball league and if you excel it can work out. The ABA is the NBA and although anyone would rather play for the Lakers than the Clippers being on an NBA roster beats being on an NBDL roster. Whittier, La Verne etc would like being on the clippers not ideal, but hey your still in the NBA. Whittier is not Harvard, but you are still at an ABA school. I really think it is generally the better route. I do know succesful attorney from CBA schools and the mayor of L.A. went to a non-aba school People's law school I believe. Mayor of L.A. is a pretty position so it certainly can work out, but generally ABA is worth the extra money IMHO.