New England Law Boston?

[bigs5068]

Thank you everyone for your advice!

By "good" school I mean that I want to graduate feeling that I obtained a good education. I attended a small Undergraduate University and I feel like the small school atmosphere had some subpar professors and that I did not walk away with a worthwhile education, just a BA in Communication. New England Law Boston is a smaller school and since that is the school I am leaning towards, it worries me.

I am guessing that NESL will meet your expectations. First off any ABA school will teach you the basics i.e. consideration in a contract, how to use Westlaw, citations, Civil Procedure, the list can go on. The ABA requires all ABA schools to abide by a code and you will likely have the same first year curriculum that Harvard does. I had another post on here and it does seem the second/third year required courses vary considerably, but for the first year it is basically the same. In essence you will learn the building blocks of the law no matter where you go.

Then at any ABA school there will be at least a few professors that have significant experience and can really help you if you seek it out. If you are in Boston I imagine many professors from elite schools teach at NESL as well. That is very common in San Francisco the same professors teach at all the Bay Area schools. Why wouldn't they? If you knew Contract law really well why not get paid 4x for holding a few classes in each location.

On top of all that you can get work experience while in school. If you are at a lower ranked school that is the key. There are numerous organizations that are more than happy to receive help from law students at least in the Bay Area. I do not know the rules in Boston, but in California if you take evidence you can make arguments in REAL LIVE COURT ON BEHALF OF CLIENTS. I have gotten to do that a lot and it is helpful to the organization and to me. If there is some basic hearing, which even a tier 4 student can handle then it is helpful to them. It is also great experience for you. Despite what some people may say courts allow tier 4 students in the door. Often times they do great jobs. Even more wild is that there are tier 4 grads that are JUDGES! I know wild. I have argued in front of judges that went to GGU. If you read sites like J.D. underground this type of thing is impossible, because nobody can be hired from tier 4 schools . However, I have met many working GGU grads and it is a tier 4 school. I am even paid to do things and I have several friends that graduated and obtained jobs.

Bottom line is if you want to learn the law and be a lawyer then NESL will likely work out. Be vary wary of the cost and be certain it is something you want to do. Also do not expect any handouts along the way you will have to fight for everything you get, but basically unless you go to a T14 school you are going to have to do that anyways. Well again good luck.

[alpeters]

i was accepted there too, but after some serious research I dont think its worth the money.  Widener on the other hand has a great reputation and I know many graduates from Widener who are doing extremely well for themselves.

[BikePilot]

Elite professors don't teach at all if they can help it - sad but true. I think you are more likely to get a larger number of practicing attorneys teaching at adjuncts at NESL than you are to get spill over from HLS etc.  This may well be a good thing though.

The ABA sets (very) basic minimum standards, this shouldn't be understood as the same thing as drafting a set 1L curriculum. For that matter even if two professors use the same casebook, they can easily have an entirely different approach and create a very different learning experience.

Big is totally right that you can usually appear in court as a student (true in Mass anyway) with various qualifications of course and, as I would hope would be obvious, it doesn't matter what law school you attend in that respect.  Most local state-court judges will come from schools well outside the T14 as will most advocates who practice in those courts.  Many, though maybe not most federal judges will come from T14 schools and most federal appellate judges and scotus justices will come from T14 (or even T3) schools. Like most careers, there's a huge variety in legal practice. Lawyers handle billion-dollar mergers between companies that impact hundred of millions of Americans and lawyers handle suits that arise from fender benders.

[politicolaw]

I don't think I'd call New England a small law school really. LSAC records 400 matriculating, I'd estimate more mid-sized. And, they seem to have a full range of opportunities in such a major city. The only thing to worry about would be cost and competition I would imagine..

[2numero3]

I visited NESL last Saturday for a Diversity Day program and was slightly impressed.

The location is nice and a short walk from the T right around the corner from Suffolk.  The students on the panel all seemed to enjoy going there and the 2 3L's on the panel were concerned about finding a job but felt confident they would find one after the pass the Bar examination.  The career services head also mentioned about about 80 to 85% of the class of 2010 were employed.  Another thing, NETWORKING was way emphasized during the weekend. It's how many of their students find their jobs/internships/clerkships.

The 4 alums were all proud of the school they went to. 2 own their own practice [one started in the Brooklyn DA office or somewhere like that - I forget the exact position], 1 works for the DA, and the other [a 2010 graduate] snagged a job right after graduation at some large firm in Boston [I forget the name though].

The professors spoke highly of the school and were definitely trying to "sell" the school to you. All in all, I think it was a nice building, students were nice, the faulty/staff were also very nice. I suggest visiting if you can

[like_lasagna]

Harvard
Boston College
Boston University
Northeastern
Suffolk

At best, you're going to the 6th best law school IN BOSTON.

That's not taking into account competition from just about every law school in the northeast, just about all of whom will rank ahead of you because they went to a better school.

[wiseman]

Shannon i am in the same situation. I have also been accepted into nesl, barry and fcsl. I have also not decided where i will be attending next fall. I have been doing a lot of research and i must say that i am extremely skeptical of florida coastal. It has a poor reputation, even in jacksonville. It sounds to me like it is exactly the type of stereotypical, conoetitive school that i do not want to go to. Given that it accepts everyone, i am sure that many of the student going there have no business attending law school. For me, that means that i am going to be surrounded by a bunch of nitwits. Though it is not my only fear, i cannot imagine being assigned to a group project with people that do.t know what they are doing. That may seem like an odd thing to say but there are so many considerations when choosing a law school. First, thw cost

[wiseman]

Shannon, i have also been accepted to nesl, barry and fcsl. From my research (which has been extensive) it seems to me that fcsl is out. It is surrounded by negativity. Everywhere i have looked has said it is a very poor school. It is overpriced, conpetitive and phony. The fact that so many people are willing to bash the schook speaks volumes of its credibility. I also dislike that it is a for profit schook. I received a 15 thousand a year scholarship and will be declining in the next few days. On ther other hand nesl and barry are viable options. Nesl is the lowest ranked in boston but it will allow me to get a job when i graduate. It will npt be easy though. I will need to place well in my class. I am also waitlisted at suffolk, unh and maine. Waiting to hear back from maine. Hope this helps at all. Just wanted to give you some feedback from someone in a similar position. As far as my dilemma goes...... does anyone know anything about barry? If i were to graduate fron barry could i get a decent job in nh? One that will allow me to repay my loans, undergrad and law school? Also, how can i get off a waitlist? Should i send my deposit to my safety and keep my hopes up for the schools im waitlistwd at or just focus on the safety? Thanks for any help

[MikePing]

Definitely send your seat deposit for your safety. 

About your waitlist schools, have you contacted them to find out:

How long is the wait-list?
What percentage of students on the wait-list are ultimately admitted?
Are wait-list students ranked? If so, ask where you are ranked?
When are final decisions regarding the wait-list made?

Have you told your first choice that they are your first choice?

Do you  have any new information that would help your application?  If so, supplement. 

[bigs5068]

I don't think FCSL is as bad as anyone said. I considered going there and ended up not attending, but random people on the internet discrediting it is not a good reason to make your decision. There is all kinds of negativity on the internet about almost every law school. The for profit thing, well I don't know what you need to do to be considered non-profit. My school is a non-profit, but they charge more than Florida Coastal so what does non-profit really mean? I truthfully don't know it seems like a label people stick on things and everyone is ok with it.

This is pretty good website to determine your employment prospects. Lawschooltransparency.com unlike U.S. News or even the ABA they list real salary information. U.S. News or the ABA count being managing partner in a mega law firm as employment and being a fry cook at McDonald's as employment. Both are counted equally so that statistics they keep should be viewed with a bit of skepticism.

Although the employment statistics are suspect any ABA school is failry difficult to get into. In regards to the one posters comment about the people being nitwits etc I think you need a reassessment of what you are getting into. Any ABA school requires you to have a bachelor's degree and generally to graduate with at least a 3.0 and get at least a 150 on the LSAT, which is the top 50% of college graduates that performed reasonably well in college and had the motivation to take the LSAT. At any ABA school the vast majority of people are pretty smart. There are a few people that don't belong there, but the majority of people at any ABA school are smart, motivated people convinced they will be in the top 10% of their class at the start. When you have 100% of people thinking they will be in the top 10% well you don't need to be a math major to see how that plays out for 90% of people.

The bottom line is if you want to live in Jacksonville FCSL would be the best bet of any of the schools you listed. If you wanted to be in Orlando then Barry would be the best. One final point is that at any ABA school you are going to learn the law. When you start school you are going to essentially learn the same exact thing as every other law student the first year. I believe almost every ABA school has this curriculum for the first year. Contracts, Torts, Civil Procedure, Property, Criminal Law, Legal Writing & Research. There is some variation but those are the classes 1L's at Harvard and FCSL take. In these courses the same textbooks are used and the Supreme Court opinions you read do not change if you read them in Harvard's library or FCSL's. Pennoyer v. Neff will be the same case no matter where you learn it. Consideration in a Contract will be the same. The UCC will be the same and so will the Constitution.

There is no doubt Harvard is the better school, but in reality you will be learning the law at either school and reading opinions, statutes, etc that you will have to interpret and figure out how to apply. The point of this long rant is that you should not listen to criticisms from anonymous sources on the internet, because they are completely unfounded. Lawschooltransparency does a pretty decent job of posting actual facts, that can help you can make an informed decision. I woudl also recommend looking at law firms and finding people that attended the schools you are considering. Ask these people about their experiences generally people that actually went to the school can give you a pretty good idea about the pros and cons of the places you are considering. I did that as a 0L and it was eye opening to read the positive experiences graduates from a variety of schools had. The majority of people posting negative comments about law schools have never set foot in a law school or even set for the LSAT. Always remember to consider the source you are hearing information from. I am only a second year law student and I have a tremendous amount to learn, but I know that when I see a ridiculous criticism of any ABA school that it is suspect.