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Author Topic: Chances of getting into University of Michigan?  (Read 4204 times)

Hamilton

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Re: Chances of getting into University of Michigan?
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2010, 10:46:58 AM »
Hey, my general attitude is that MOST folks should reconsider going to law school when you consider the cost, job prospects, and oversupply of lawyers - especially if looking at non-Tier 1 schools.  (This is not me being a Tier snob, it is simply recognizing the reality out there in the hiring market - I am a T3/4 grad)  Personally I think UM is worth paying full price for and it will give you a good shot at a good job making good money; however, 50% of that is on the person and his abilities.  UM will open doors that most law schools wont.  No law school will guarantee a job, not anymore; however, if you are talented, driven, and graduate from UM, you will do well and most likely get a good paying job.

I'm confused. From what I thought (I could be wrong- if so please correct me), It's ok to pay full price for a T14 school, because paying it back will be easy considering you almost have a guaranteed job upon graduation, however paying full price for a Tier 3/4 school is stupid, so one should do really well to get scholarships, if one decides to go to a lower tier school.

nealric

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Re: Chances of getting into University of Michigan?
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2010, 12:59:55 PM »
Quote
  t1 dosn't mean jack as far as "Guarenteed job", no such thing exists.

No, you are pretty much guaranteed a job if you go to Yale as long as you don't have a serious personality disorder.

Quote
Do you even understand what you just wrote? #9 and #90 are the same damn thing. Thats like comparing ugly to fugly, if you have to go into debt to get either, its stupid, don't be stupid. 

You are taking things waayyyyyy to far with this. Taking on 75k in debt to attend a T14 was one of the best financial decisions I ever made. Is taking out loans to attend a top-ranked school always a good idea? No. But it can be depending on your specific situation.


Quote
And for the record- I am certainly NOT in the top 10% of LSAT scores. My initial scores are far from it. I posted this because I figured, if it's possible to get admitted at UMich with a high enough score (despite my GPA) then I would TRY to get that score on the LSAT by working even harder than I initially thought I would have to (with the score I'm getting now, I can get into 3rd/4th tier schools already, if I took the test now.) and focus on raising my score, instead of just getting above 160, as I initially wanted.

Based on lawschoolnumbers, it looks like you would need a 170+ to have a reasonable  shot.

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cvargas84

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Re: Chances of getting into University of Michigan?
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2010, 01:08:22 PM »
thanks, everyone.

I guess I should clarify- I used the job "guaranteed" job, and it is clear to me that a job is never guaranteed. My point (or impression from everything I have read) was along the lines of the last poster: "IF one is going to get loans to finance law school, THEN it should only be to finance a Top Tier education". Obviously it depends on the person- all jobs do. Graduating from Harvard does nothing for someone who isn't willing to work really hard, I get it, but from my understanding, going to a T14 opens doors that one would otherwise not have access to (for the most part, as I'm sure there are Tier 3/4 students who work in Big Law. But if that's the case, it's the exception, and not the rule.)

Let's say starting salaries for a UMich law graduate is median $160. That is a lot better than the median starting salary of a person graduating from a local school, such as a "safety" that I plan on applying, so wouldn't that "justify" taking out loans? That's my question. The answer may be no, and that's ok. I'm trying to learn and gain insight from all of you here.

I guess I'm trying to figure out now (that I know getting it would be possible if scoring high enough on the LSAT- which seems challenging enough) which is better, no debt=Tier 3/4 school or debt=top tier school (T14)

Obviously, I would prefer to go to UMich *and* get a scholarship. Wouldn't that be fantastic? I'm just trying to think worst case scenario, and trying to be as realistic as possible and not get caught up in the "Oh I can get in? Ok then who cares if I can afford that" mentality that I know a lot of people fall for. I'm trying to NOT do that.

marcus-aurelius

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Re: Chances of getting into University of Michigan?
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2010, 02:30:31 PM »
University of Michigan is worth the loans.  Saying ranking #9 is the same as ranking #90 is patently false.  From my research, schools in the T14 are a safe bet for a vast majority.  Even some lower schools, (Vandy, UTexas) seem to be.  The economy is tought out there currently for nearly every profession.  By the time you get to law school in In 2012/2013, things may be looking up.  Either way, Michigan is a better choice from school #90

bigs5068

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Re: Chances of getting into University of Michigan?
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2010, 03:32:48 PM »
Going to school #9 would almost always be better than going to school #90. However, you should always consider location if you have absolutely no desire to live in Michigan or the Midwest attending Ann Arbor might be a bad idea. If you aspire to live in Texas, California, Florida, etc then it may be difficult to get a job in those areas from Michigan. California already has UCLA, USC, Stanford, and Berkeley to choose from so they aren't going to extend to Michigan generally. Texas has UT and people in Texas might prefer someone from a lower ranked school in Texas opposed to someone from a higher ranked out of towner.

On top of that if you are not coming from Money to fly out to interview in these other places will be difficult. As stated before there is a good chance a lot of firms are not going to fly out to Michigan for OCI. They are also probably not going to spend money on flying you out. Remember, there is no shortage of law schools anywhere and in any metropolitan area L.A., Chicago, New York, San Francisco, etc there are already elite law schools they can roll into.

Getting out with minimal debt is also huge. As was stated with no job is guaranteed. Lawschooltransparency is a great website to look at actual salalry numbers. http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/clearinghouse/?school=michigan. You can look at every school's real numbers here. As you can see University of Michigan has 100% employment, but do they really? 22% of the class has a job, but no salary reported. This mean 22% of their students could be flipping burgers. These 22% are employed, but doing what and being paid how much? If you are making 10 bucks an hour as a file clerk in Ann Arbor it will be quite difficult to pay off 150k in debt on top of 8,000 in interest annually you will be accruing.   I really recommend that site and you can really get a feel for the realities of law school employment. The people working on that site trying to get schools and U.S. News to actually provide substantive data are awesome! If you could somehow get a guaranteed full scholarship at an ABA school in location you wanted to live in it might be a better option.

Michigan is a really good school, but those are just some things to consider. I think I have a bias towards because the one and only person I met from there was awful! I worked with her when I was a paralegal and she was in the top 10% of her class at UM, but I heard about that from her way to often. She never did any freaking work. She constantly talked about her school and class rank, but believe it or not if you are in litigation nobody cares that you got in A in Contracts. In your motions you can't write Bobby breached this contract and needs to pay Sally 1,000,000  because I received an A in Contracts at the University of Michigan. In reality you need to do actual work and if someone from Cooley writes a better motion than you are they are going to win the case. She did not seem to understand that.  Everybody really disliked her and she was not offered a job after her summer gig. I have never wanted to strangle someone so much.  Any assignment she was given resulted in a rolling of the eyes and she just had the worst attitude I have seen in my life. I imagine the majority of UM students are not like her, but it is the only person I have dealt with from the school and it goes to show the name of your school will only get you so far.




interrex

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Re: Chances of getting into University of Michigan?
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2010, 06:20:35 PM »
If thats true why do even IVY league grads keep showing up on the news crying about how they can't find work and how college "betrayed" them?

Quote
  t1 dosn't mean jack as far as "Guarenteed job", no such thing exists.

No, you are pretty much guaranteed a job if you go to Yale as long as you don't have a serious personality disorder.

Quote
Do you even understand what you just wrote? #9 and #90 are the same damn thing. Thats like comparing ugly to fugly, if you have to go into debt to get either, its stupid, don't be stupid. 

You are taking things waayyyyyy to far with this. Taking on 75k in debt to attend a T14 was one of the best financial decisions I ever made. Is taking out loans to attend a top-ranked school always a good idea? No. But it can be depending on your specific situation.


Quote
And for the record- I am certainly NOT in the top 10% of LSAT scores. My initial scores are far from it. I posted this because I figured, if it's possible to get admitted at UMich with a high enough score (despite my GPA) then I would TRY to get that score on the LSAT by working even harder than I initially thought I would have to (with the score I'm getting now, I can get into 3rd/4th tier schools already, if I took the test now.) and focus on raising my score, instead of just getting above 160, as I initially wanted.

Based on lawschoolnumbers, it looks like you would need a 170+ to have a reasonable  shot.

cvargas84

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Re: Chances of getting into University of Michigan?
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2010, 09:19:40 PM »
Thanks for the link and info. The girl you worked with sounds like a joy! haha.

At least for me, I came to this board hoping to get into a tier 4. Not because I didn't think I couldn't get into a higher tiered school but because I never even considered it- I've always just wanted to be a lawyer and practice law, so it was a no brainer. I never considered a higher tier until the possibility arose of moving to Michigan and I realized that University of Michigan would be so close to where we will be. The debt and strenuous amount of work that it will take to get in are strong cons, though. I'm also going to look into the lower tiered schools around that area in Michigan.

Also, I didn't grow up in the US so the whole Tier-wars is a new thing to me, as was the unbelievably high cost of going to law school. In Chile it's a bit different, as law is a five year long undergrad degree, followed by a final exam and 6 month public assistance externship and parents usually pay for your college education. My sister is in her 4th year of law school at a private "top" law school in Chile and her tuition is around $600 US Dollars per month. This obviously sounds like a bargain to me now, and graduating with $150K v $0 in debt is a pretty substantial difference if you think about how $150k can buy you a home, but one cannot live in their law degree.

Going to school #9 would almost always be better than going to school #90. However, you should always consider location if you have absolutely no desire to live in Michigan or the Midwest attending Ann Arbor might be a bad idea. If you aspire to live in Texas, California, Florida, etc then it may be difficult to get a job in those areas from Michigan. California already has UCLA, USC, Stanford, and Berkeley to choose from so they aren't going to extend to Michigan generally. Texas has UT and people in Texas might prefer someone from a lower ranked school in Texas opposed to someone from a higher ranked out of towner.

On top of that if you are not coming from Money to fly out to interview in these other places will be difficult. As stated before there is a good chance a lot of firms are not going to fly out to Michigan for OCI. They are also probably not going to spend money on flying you out. Remember, there is no shortage of law schools anywhere and in any metropolitan area L.A., Chicago, New York, San Francisco, etc there are already elite law schools they can roll into.

Getting out with minimal debt is also huge. As was stated with no job is guaranteed. Lawschooltransparency is a great website to look at actual salalry numbers. http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/clearinghouse/?school=michigan. You can look at every school's real numbers here. As you can see University of Michigan has 100% employment, but do they really? 22% of the class has a job, but no salary reported. This mean 22% of their students could be flipping burgers. These 22% are employed, but doing what and being paid how much? If you are making 10 bucks an hour as a file clerk in Ann Arbor it will be quite difficult to pay off 150k in debt on top of 8,000 in interest annually you will be accruing.   I really recommend that site and you can really get a feel for the realities of law school employment. The people working on that site trying to get schools and U.S. News to actually provide substantive data are awesome! If you could somehow get a guaranteed full scholarship at an ABA school in location you wanted to live in it might be a better option.

Michigan is a really good school, but those are just some things to consider. I think I have a bias towards because the one and only person I met from there was awful! I worked with her when I was a paralegal and she was in the top 10% of her class at UM, but I heard about that from her way to often. She never did any freaking work. She constantly talked about her school and class rank, but believe it or not if you are in litigation nobody cares that you got in A in Contracts. In your motions you can't write Bobby breached this contract and needs to pay Sally 1,000,000  because I received an A in Contracts at the University of Michigan. In reality you need to do actual work and if someone from Cooley writes a better motion than you are they are going to win the case. She did not seem to understand that.  Everybody really disliked her and she was not offered a job after her summer gig. I have never wanted to strangle someone so much.  Any assignment she was given resulted in a rolling of the eyes and she just had the worst attitude I have seen in my life. I imagine the majority of UM students are not like her, but it is the only person I have dealt with from the school and it goes to show the name of your school will only get you so far.

interrex

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Re: Chances of getting into University of Michigan?
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2010, 10:16:37 PM »
Have you considered getting your degree and license down there and then transfer into the US? You'd have to check with the ABA, but they allow that for a lot of degrees in other nations especially if licensed before you try to transfer to the states.

cvargas84

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Re: Chances of getting into University of Michigan?
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2010, 09:38:58 AM »
not possible, plus I want to practice here and be done with it in 3 years, not 6.

interrex

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Re: Chances of getting into University of Michigan?
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2010, 09:48:07 AM »
I respect the idea of getting it done faster, but why is it "not possible"?
Are you in exile?

not possible, plus I want to practice here and be done with it in 3 years, not 6.