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Author Topic: Student v. School  (Read 3428 times)

Cicero

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Student v. School
« on: September 15, 2010, 07:58:59 PM »
Have you all heard about this lawsuit?

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/07/student-v-school-charlotte-school-of-law-sued-by-student-seeking-admissions-for-bankruptcy-proceeding/
(this article didn't transfer very well)

    * 22 Jul 2010 at 10:09 AM
    * Posted in:
      Bankruptcy, Charlotte, Law Schools, Lawsuit of the Day, Student Loans

Student v. School: Charlotte School of Law Sued by Student Seeking Admissions for Bankruptcy Proceeding
By Elie Mystal


Iím surprised this doesnít happen more often. A student is demanding that his law school admit to scamming him out of money in open court.

And why? The student isnít trying to recover tuition dollars directly from the school. Instead, the student is involved in the arduous process of trying to get his debts discharged through bankruptcy. As weíve mentioned repeatedly, you canít discharge student loans through the bankruptcy process absent a showing of undue hardship.

The student is named Kenneth Desormes. The school is Charlotte School of Law. And he wants Charlotte to admit what they did to himÖ

Desormes filed a request for admission from Charlotte in U.S. Bankruptcy Court, District of Connecticut. The first few requests read like a standard ďscamblogĒ type post:

    REQUEST FOR ADMISSION

    1. Admit that your business targets young, ambitious, and naÔve individuals to enroll into an inferior legal education program.

    2. Admit that your business lures these individuals through a very lucrative scholarship incentive program.

    3. Admit that your business fails to fully disclose its accreditation status to prospective enrollees.

    4. Admit that your business discourages and in fact inhibits the transfer of current students to other institutions.

Iím not sure how this helps the kid show undue hardship, but itís pretty funny.

The next section gets into the studentís personal issues:

    5. Admit that your business did not provide adequate accommodation for students with learning disabilities until the Spring of 2009.

    6. Admit that not all the students who attend your business meet the legal requirements for employment as attorneys due to a mental condition or criminal records.

    7. Admit that the Plaintiff may have possessed either or both of these conditions at the time of enrollment.

    8. Admit that your business received privy information in the Fall of 2008 that Plaintiff did not meet the legal requirements for employment as an attorney based on the conditions discussed in question 6.

    9. Admit that your business ignored that information and persisted on originating several loans on behalf of the Plaintiff thereafter.

These questions get a little complicated. Surely Desormes isnít arguing that law schools should discriminate against people with mental conditions and criminal records? We donít want law schools to be de facto character and fitness review boards, do we? Itís not like Charlotte was targeting students with mental disabilities, right?

Desormes didnít respond to our request for comment. The papers were filed last week and we havenít been able to locate a response from Charlotte School of Law at this time.

The student does end with a classic closing request:

    10. Admit that your business knew or should have known that Plaintiff would be in no position to repay those loans.

Ha. Itíll be a cold day in hell before any law school admits to that.

bigs5068

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Re: Student v. School
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2010, 09:29:00 PM »
Imagine if this guy used all this energy to find a job instead of blaming everybody else for his problems.

Also it is up to the student's to disclose any felonies etc to their school. They tell you to do it and if you don't well you are going to waste 3 years of your life, maybe they should do the bar background at the beginning so there are no sudden surprises. Then mental condition and learning disabiilities? Honestly, if the person was smart enough to graduate college and get a LSAT score respectable enough to get into an ABA school they don't have a severe mental condition.


bigs5068

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Re: Student v. School
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2011, 08:32:47 PM »
I do have to ask how did he rack up 250k in student loans? The most expensive school is 45k a year and I believe that is Harvard. Many schools are only 30k a year and if attended a 45k a year school 135k in tuition if he blew through 115k STRAIGHT CASH no taxes in 3 years maybe he has 0 financial responsibility. Law school is expensive, but racking up 250k seems a little suspicious.

barond

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Re: Student v. School
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2011, 11:57:47 AM »
I can easily see a student using 250k in loans. Remember, some students live really well in law school.  Half the people in your class might be blowing through thousands of dollars in loan money every month.  Paying for there kids, paying rent, buying cars, etc.  All of these expenses add up and its really easy to simply spend the borrowed money you didn't earn.

bigs5068

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Re: Student v. School
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2011, 03:48:15 PM »
Then whose fault is it? If you live really well on borrowed money and you were smart enough to get into law school, which means you are not completely retarded you should have the common sense to realize you will have to pay it back. If you are living in a 3,000 a month apartment going to fancy dinners and partying like you never did before when you were actually making money you have to know it will catch up to you. If these were high school dropouts or people with mental disease their might be a bit of sympathy. However, law students are college educated people that know what they are doing. They just have an idea that they are special and reality will not catch up to them. Unfortunately, nobody is special and you cannot have to much sympathy for an intelligent person  making terrible decisions. You can keep your debt down below 250k pretty easily. There are plenty of programs including work-study, which is not that hard to get that you can do to keep your debt down. The only baffling thing about work-study is that you have to dare I say "work" I know that is a crazy concept, but it is there.

haus

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Re: Student v. School
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2011, 11:19:40 PM »
Last time I checked the vast majority of incoming law students easily fall into the category of being legally adults, fully capable of entering into contracts. Most even spent a great deal of time informing their prospective law schools how cleaver and above average they are in countless ways. As such it seems disingenuous to come back and claim that you were an idiot and should not have been allowed to be taken advantage of by the big mean law school.

Try this course of action to get out of a contract for military service, where something more important then a school loan covering your European vacation is on the line. Honestly these arguments make me ill, sure life takes some unexpected turns, but people need to grow a spine and learn to find a way to resolve problems that do not involve looking for the boggy man who did nasty things to them.

bigs5068

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Re: Student v. School
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2011, 11:57:08 PM »
I know it is amazing if they ever get to court and the judge pulls out the student's personal statement indicating how intelligent, motivated, etc they are I would love to see the look at the student's face. I had a bunch of bosses or former professors write to you telling you how capable I was and I even wrote an essay about it myself directly to you. I earned a College Degree and worked in various fields and even was even intelligent enough to post a respectable score on the LSAT and pass the bar. Still I cannot possibly be held accountable for the decisions I made.

You are pretty smart if you can pass the bar. Not to mention law schools require you to send LOR's, personal statements etc where you essentially talk about how great you are. The only conclusion a judge could come up with is you are not an idiot, but no matter how smart you are if you make stupid decisions to study abroad every summer on BORROWED money and never work then that is your own damn fault. Not to mention plenty of law students do succeed. If a law school had a 0% bar passage rate then there might be an issue. There are students at every school that obtain jobs and believe it or not the problem with unemployed students may be the student themselves. Sometimes you do need to be accountable for your decisions as surprising as that might be.

BikePilot

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Re: Student v. School
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2011, 04:40:00 PM »
I'm pretty sure I spent about 250k+ to go to law school.  Some was loans, some was earnings, some savings.  I didn't live well at all.  Figure $50k/yr for tuition+ fees, 21,000/yr for a crappy, tiny apartment near school, $6k/yr for a crappy, tiny apartment near the summer job, $3k/yr for travel expenses (flying to interviews, going from school city to job city etc) and you are up to ~$80k x 3 = $240,000 before you buy any food, books, local transport, clothes, etc. 
HLS 2010

bigs5068

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Re: Student v. School
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2011, 04:51:15 PM »
Harvard I think has the most expensive tuition cost of any school though. Harvard is 43,000 per year TJSL where the guy went was 33,000 per year. Not to mention this guy somehow ended up in NY, which is a long way from San Diego and more expensive as well. My point being the guy in the article did not seem to be pinching his pennies and when you are going to a non-elite school you should be wary of your expenditures. If you got into Harvard or T14 schools the payoff does generally come back faster. If you go to the 132nd best school you are going to have to fight your way up. It is very rare to get handed a 150k a year job from these schools and you should only go them if you really want to be a lawyer. On top of that I imagine the guy ignoring the phone calls from collectors is resulting in more interest accruing and possibly some type of liquidated damages fee that comes in. Ignoring your responsibilities generally ends up costing you more in the long run and the guy in the New York times just does not elicit much sympathy from me. I am sure there are much more sympathetic cases out there than this guy.