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Author Topic: ABA has a monopoly on Law Schools.  (Read 4060 times)

jack24

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Re: ABA has a monopoly on Law Schools.
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2011, 05:09:00 PM »
This thread is amusing. 
Many of you made great points, but some of you are naive in my not so humble opinion.

Some low ranked, non-aba schools in California produce terrible bar passage rates.  Does anyone seriously think that has anything to do with the quality of education?  Maybe it has a small impact, but the more likely cause of the low test scores is that the quality of students is low.

Is it a surprise to anyone that a school whose students average 145 on the LSAT would produce candidates who do poorly on the MBE?

For most law students, the third year is a complete waste of time.  For many law students, the second year is a complete waste of time.  Even if you go to a really cheap law school you are spending 30,000 for 2L-3L and suffering an opportunity cost of between $40,000 and $150,000. 
State bars should require 30 credits of in class coursework, 2000 hours of job experience under the supervision of an approved employer, and a passing score on the exam.  Any given employer could require more in-class credits if they wanted, but I doubt they would. 

But just think of how much that proposal would cost law schools.  It would mean my law school would have 320 less students paying tuition every year. (A loss in total revenue of about $5.7 million a year.)  My school is on the low end, but if that were the average for the 180 ABA law schools it would cut revenue by over $1 billion every year.



financialandtaxguy

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Re: ABA has a monopoly on Law Schools.
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2011, 04:21:01 AM »

Some low ranked, non-aba schools in California produce terrible bar passage rates.  Does anyone seriously think that has anything to do with the quality of education?  Maybe it has a small impact, but the more likely cause of the low test scores is that the quality of students is low.


Don't forget there are many that still consider California's bar exam to be the hardest in the Country.  So my hats off to all the online and distance educated law students in CA that have passed the CA bar, especially on first attempt!

FalconJimmy

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Re: ABA has a monopoly on Law Schools.
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2011, 09:35:24 AM »
Don't forget there are many that still consider California's bar exam to be the hardest in the Country.  So my hats off to all the online and distance educated law students in CA that have passed the CA bar, especially on first attempt!

Some people do, but almost always because the passage rate is so poor.

If you look at the passage rate of the actual ABA accredited schools in California, it's right there with everybody else in the country, generally in the 80-90% range.

Most people would say New York has the toughest bar exam.

Morten Lund

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Re: ABA has a monopoly on Law Schools.
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2011, 06:16:54 PM »
For example the legally blind guy who got a 173 on his LSAT could have gotten into some elite schools. However, he was legally blind had a hard time getting around and  had a wife (who had a good job in Chico) and kids who lived in Chico.

Side note:  There was a legally blind guy in my law school class.

To OP:  Even if the ABA is a "monopoly" for purposes of anti-trust law, that does not automatically make the ABA "illegal" in any way.  It is not illegal to be a monopoly, it is only illegal to abuse monopoly power - and I am not sure what the ABA is doing that would constitute abuse of monopoly power.  Perhaps if the ABA were conspiring with US News and World Report...  that would make for a good story.

bigs5068

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Re: ABA has a monopoly on Law Schools.
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2011, 11:40:58 PM »
They might be abusing it look at the tuition increases over the last 5 years. http://www.lsac.org/LSACResources/Publications/official-guide-archives.asp

Just a few examples, but every ABA school follows this pattern.
Albany in 2007 cost 32,360 per year it has gone up steadily each year and currenlty the price tag is 39,050. In 3 years the tuition went up 6,690 or 20%. I am sure nothing changed at Albany they just keep increasing the tuition because what can anyone do.

Cardozo 34,850 per year in 2007 in 2010 42,570 another 20% increase in tuition.

Franklin Pierce Law Center 27,300 per year in 2007 and only up to 33,280 in 2007 smaller number, but the increase is roughly 20% again.

The list can go on and on all law school in 3 years have gone up 20% in tuition costs and do not seem to be stopping anytime soon. You have to go to an ABA school to be a lawyer and they are already overcharging and continue to do so. I would consider it an abuse unless schools of course schools did an actual accounting and justified the expenditures. It is very possible the price increases are legitamite, but I have been to every Bay Area school and for schools to be charging what they do I should have a personal assistant and a private 24 k gold bathroom. I have neither and I don't of any school that provides these services that would justify the costs. So that being said I think someone could sue the ABA for an anti-trust violation it is a monopoly and the price hikes are abusive.

I like my school and law school in general, but this seems like a clear abuse of power to me by the schools and nobody questions it. All my concerns would go away if schools did an accounting and justified their costs LSAC has required schools to report how much schools spend on their library so it is a start, but it is roughly a 1,000,000 at each school that does not account for the approximately 18,000,000 each school receives in tution money. I based 18,000,000 on an estimated 30,000 a year tuition and 600 students at any given school. So if a school is receiving 18,000,000 and spends 1,000,000 on their library & staff. Where is the other 17,000,000 mil going a few professors, property taxes, etc, but I feel like someone or a few people are getting absurdly wealthy at every school and continue to get wealthier by hiking law school prices.