Any chance of top 30s?

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So I took the LSAT the first time a while back, when I was completely unprepared. 151. I had little sleep, and thought I did ok so just kept the score (I should have canceled). GPA is a 3.4, not bad but certainly not great, it is at a good liberal arts school, close to the top 10.

Chances of me getting into the top 30 is low, I take it? I would really like to go to Notre Dame, Fordham or Boston College, but with the stats as they are currently I think even getting a 180 LSAT on my second try (in October) wouldn't remove the taint of the 151. I'm wondering what you guys think my chances are. I know it's not a precise science--if it helps, I have some good internship experiences, led my own organization in college, and probably have two nice academic recommendations coming up. But I have no work experience, I'm just fresh out of college.

Thoughts? Remarks? Comments? Please contribute. You are welcome to say "Very unlikely, no chance." I won't be hurt or cry.

[SASS]

Most schools don't average the LSAT anymore, they haven't for about 5 years now.  Your best score is taken.  Find out if your target schools still averages, as I said most don't.

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Most excellent. I read in Anne Levine's book that since June 2006 they didn't average scores, and she didn't say *why* so I remained skeptical until you confirmed this is true for most schools. Thanks!

[BikePilot]

The official position (by lsac I think) is that scores generally shouldn't be averaged, but schools can still do whatever they please.  My guess is they'll mostly take the higher score, but maybe if you are on the bubble someone with only a high score will probably get the nudge.  Just my guess.  They don't really care about work experience and the other soft factors might be necessary to keep from getting dinged, but aren't going to separate you from the zillion other law school applicants. Basically, its down to lsat + gpa, do your best on the retake.  I think with a really good score on the retake you'd be in fairly good shape for those schools. 

IIRC you need three references (I know I did) when applying to law schools unless things have changed in the past 3yrs.
 

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Three references? I thought most schools required two. Is three recommended? I was thinking the undergrad app rule applied: The thicker the applicant packet, the thicker the applicant. I guess not? O_o

So work experience, the personal statement, etc--these are considered, but not much, right? Only if you're competing with someone else, generally? I know it differs from school to school. Addenda explaining my original poor score will help, but probably not wipe it off the board, so to speak, right?

['blueskies]

Addenda explaining my original poor score will help, but probably not wipe it off the board, so to speak, right?

Getting a much higher score will do a lot to wipe the old one off the board

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Hm. But let's say I got a 162, when my original test was 151. Any test score above 5 points over the original will help wipe it off, of course--but getting a 170 even more so....I guess I'm still just worried that the original 151 will still play a fair part in their judgment. "Oh, he has this addenda, but he was still clearly ill-prepared, and didn't cancel. Something went wrong, but it was still in his means to get rid of it, so we should judge him for it".

I understand that a person who just gets a straight off 162 will be better than me getting a hypothetical 162 after a 151....but, beyond that--they will still judge, won't they? Basically I'm asking if, even though this is a by-the-numbers game, qualitative concerns (addenda, etc) will matter with regards to LSAT scores. XD

[lawboy81]

If the choice is between you and another guy with the same score you had on the second test and he got it the first time he took it, then they might pick him. But schools generally don't care so much your first score because the score they have to report to LSAC, US News, etc. is the higher one. Just do as good as you can on the next LSAT. Even w/ a 162, however, you'll be rejected by BC, ND, etc. You'll need about a 165 to be competative for those schools. With a 162/ 3.4 you're competative for schools like American, SMU, Florida, Arizona, Colorado, Cardozo, Case, Tulane.

[Scroll]

Makes sense, thanks for your input and clarifications!

I will try to get a 170 or so. I just fear I'll get attacked by nerves. My highest score on the practice exams is generally around 168 or so right now....weak on games, going to try and improve on those.