Best Law Schools according to lay perception

[llsatt1]

I don't think anyone would write a post of that length from a phone but I'll cut him some slack. 

[bigs5068]

They are generally just rants from my phone while I am on the Cal-train. However, sometimes I do write from a computer and maybe it comes out better. Truth is I don't really care how bad my grammar is on here.  This is an internet forum where anybody and everybody can say whatever they want.  If it was a legal paper I would take some time to check grammar etc, but when posting to random strangers about subjective topics on the internet I really don't care if a few words are misspelled or commas are in the wrong place.  Maybe I should care, but I already waste way to much time posting on here as it is, and I do not plan spending time proofreading everything.

[lawboy81]

EDIT:

The Official, Updated T25:

1. harvard
2. yale
3. stanford
4. georgetown
5. columbia
6. duke
7. berkeley
9.  notre dame
10. vanderbilt
11. cornell
12. ucla
13. virginia
14. michigan
15. nyu
16. penn/ penn state
17. emory
18. northwestern
19. gw
20. usc
21. texas
22. unc
23. tulane
24. bc/ bu
25. u. chicago

Basically take US News list for undergraduate schools. Then add point for having an expensive, prestigious sounding private school name (see "cornell," "vanderbilt," "tulane," "berkeley"), deduct major points for sounding like a state school (see "u. chicago), but deduct less points if the school is a state or private school that sounds like a state school with a catchy moniker ("ucla" "unc," "nyu", etc.). Add points if school has good sports programs (notre dame, duke), but deduct points if more people think of it as PRIMARILY a sports powerhouse (michigan, usc, texas). Add a few points if the word "Boston" is in the name, because Boston sounds prestigious.  Viola, the list.

[MidWesternPleb]

I agree with some of the earlier posts.  I think it's highly regional.  Almost any non-lawyer, anywhere in the country, is going to have a high initial perception of a HYS grad.  After that, there probably aren't many who know the difference between, say, Virginia and IU, or Michigan and Florida.  I'm sure there are a lot of non-lawyers who would probably assume that schools with a high academic profile generally (Notre Dame, Duke, NYU, Berkeley), also have respected law schools.  You probably wouldn't have a great deal of recognition for otherwise great LS like WashSTL or W&M aside from non-lawyers in those regions.

Another interesting point if you are considering "laypersons" to be non-college graduates:  If you are outside of biglaw (especially in flyover country) and the client base is blue collar small business, you'll likely find that even HYS would be trumped by the state school, or if more than one, the more highly respected state school.  Sure, it's a stereotype, but people in these areas honestly do look at people coming from those schools with a little bit of suspicion AND there is a very noticeable "ours is as good as yours" type of mentality.  Whether or not this overrides their self-interest in hiring the attorney/firm with the best law school credentials would be a good question - but my guess is that it happens more often than not.  But I suppose that goes less to perception and more to personal client preferences - so it doesn't really address the OP topic.  But it's worth thinking about, I suppose.

Interesting topic, OP.   

[bigs5068]

I totally agree with that post. In some instances Harvard law school may look bad on your resume. I have lived in some small towns and they would much rather have someone from their area handle their problems. They view the Ivy League's in negative light, obviously that is unfounded, but people are people. Employment and perception is highly subjective I am impressed by someone who graduated from Stanford, but a person in Weed, California might rather have a graduate from Cal Northern a CBA school handle their problems.

[MeganEW]

A couple nitpicking thoughts...

Private schools have a big advantage over public schools, generally speaking. Of course in the flagship state is usually considered "great" by people in that state, but you leave the state and your school is only known if they're good at football or basketball, and even then they're only known for football or basketball. Interestingly, there seem to be a lot of schools which have "good" (according to US News anyway) law schools that don't have good undergrad programs -- Fordham, GW, American, GMU, Minnesota, Alabama -- I would guess these schools are not highly regarded according to lay perception (though GW may be an exception). However, there aren't as many schools that have very highly regarded undergrad programs with inferior law schools -- all I can think of is Wake Forest (I know it's undergrad is around #25 and law is around #40) so might be hard to make any conclusions about these schools.

Like GW, I think Fordham could also be an exception, at least regionally.  It has a rich history and relatively good brand despite its weaker undergrad (but even that is respected... 3rd best undergrad in NYC after Columbia and NYU, right?).  However, I would guess most lay NYers would guess the law school is in the Bronx instead of down at Lincoln Center.

1. harvard
2. yale
3. stanford
4. georgetown
5. columbia
6. duke
7. berkeley
9.  notre dame
10. vanderbilt
11. cornell
12. ucla
13. virginia
14. michigan
15. nyu
16. penn/ penn state
17. emory
18. northwestern
19. gw
20. usc
21. texas
22. unc
23. tulane
24. bc/ bu
25. u. chicago

Basically take US News list for undergraduate schools. Then add point for having an expensive, prestigious sounding private school name (see "cornell," "vanderbilt," "tulane," "berkeley"), deduct major points for sounding like a state school (see "u. chicago), but deduct less points if the school is a state or private school that sounds like a state school with a catchy moniker ("ucla" "unc," "nyu", etc.). Add points if school has good sports programs (notre dame, duke), but deduct points if more people think of it as PRIMARILY a sports powerhouse (michigan, usc, texas). Add a few points if the word "Boston" is in the name, because Boston sounds prestigious.  Viola, the list.

I think your logic makes sense.  I'm curious why you put Penn/Penn State, though.  I mean, the former is an Ivy with a Top 5 b-school.  Those in business make a HUGE distinction between Penn and Penn State. I imagine most other college educated types at least know the difference. 

[huiru]

I've heard Cornell is highly regarded in the Northeast, but most people don't know it in the South. pandora