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Author Topic: Best Law Schools according to lay perception  (Read 8846 times)

bigs5068

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Re: Best Law Schools according to lay perception
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2010, 09:24:44 PM »
I really think a hiring attorney absent big law would be more concerned with more than an alma matter.  In the Bay Area there are about a million law schools and I interact with other 1L's at my internship and I would say that it varies a lot by the person not the school.  There are a lot of Hastings people at my internship there are some that I think are idiots, others I think are awesome, and one that I think is smart, but the person is a an absolute a-hole.  There are three Berkley people two are cool, but one is so quiet I couldn't tell you if she was a genius or a retard. She simply does not talk to anyone and maybe she is a genius and doing well I have no idea, but I would not want her to argue in court for me that is for sure, even if she does go to Berkley. Maybe she is a great writer, but she is just to shy.

There are few Santa Clara and USF people they are fine. However, far and away the best intern out of everyone goes to Florida Coastal he gets the most responsibility and has won a lot of the motions he was written. I can't say anyone has had the success rate he has.  I really in all honestly believe everything in life is related to your performance not your school. It certainly helps to go to a good school and I am sure that quiet Berkley girl will get some opportunities, but I would be terrified to have her represent me in a trial. I know there a lot of great Berkley attorneys, but her as an individual would probably be to shy to object to anything if she was in litigation. Painful shyness is not something your LSAT or GPA displays, but it would certainly affect your ability to be a good attorney.

Again there is no doubt that to some people school name is everything and it helps and I would much rather be at Stanford than GGU. However, if I ever pass the bar and become a lawyer I will look at a lot more than the name of someone's school if I have to make a hiring decision.  I have met a lot of awesome people that go to great schools as well as a lot of duds from great schools. I have met idiots that go to bad bad schools and really awesome people that go to bad schools. I am referring to undergrad right now by the way and I just think for the majority of people that personality, actual performance, and hard word would be more important for your success in any field opposed to your pedigree.

The perfect example of that is sports again. How many #1 draft picks have been terrible and how many people picked 52 or 200th have been hall of famers. The answer is a lot.  Again being a number one pick opens more doors at first, but if you can't do the job it is real noticeable and you end up like Jamarcus Russel on the street in three years.  His Pedigree was great LSU in regards to football is like Harvard in regards to law school. He led them to a champsionshiop and had good numbers in college. He was a terrible NFL quarterback though and he is gone now. His college accomplishments don't help him at all. Tom Brady picked #223 I think had to bust his ass to get noticed, but he did it and is possibly the greatest quarterback of all time. Same thing with Brett Favre and I could go on a long list of people in sports nobody expected anything from that flourished and people drafted #1 that were terrible Kwame Brown, Michael Olowkandi etc. 

the white rabbit

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Re: Best Law Schools according to lay perception
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2010, 09:56:18 PM »
I always stop reading your posts when I get to the sports analogy.  :)
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exspes

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Re: Best Law Schools according to lay perception
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2010, 12:29:47 AM »
Even though most lawstudents and lawyers claim to be against online grads, I'm pretty sure that the average true "layperson" would be like "oh my god, you must be a genius!!!! You are self taught, wow!!!!" and even more so for the ones who skipped lawschool all together and just did an intership and the bar, the whole "I'm so smart, that I just clep'ed it female dog!" attitude.

You can say that you don't think so, but your opinion is as a person in the lawfield or at least interested in it enough to come to this forum, not the average layman changing tires going "Hey Tony, you forgot the pepperoni and the gobbeldygook, my love to your mother."

the white rabbit

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Re: Best Law Schools according to lay perception
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2010, 05:57:35 AM »
...I'm pretty sure that the average true "layperson" would be like "oh my god, you must be a genius!!!! You are self taught, wow!!!!" and even more so for the ones who skipped lawschool all together and just did an intership and the bar, the whole "I'm so smart, that I just clep'ed it female dog!" attitude.

How are you "pretty sure" of this?
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pacelaw2013

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Re: Best Law Schools according to lay perception
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2010, 07:17:41 AM »
Quote
Even though most lawstudents and lawyers claim to be against online grads, I'm pretty sure that the average true "layperson" would be like "oh my god, you must be a genius!!!! You are self taught, wow!!!!" and even more so for the ones who skipped lawschool all together and just did an intership and the bar, the whole "I'm so smart, that I just clep'ed it female dog!" attitude.


I also question that. I think even most laypeople (if only through Legally Blonde) realize being in class is important in law school. But I guess the true litmus test for this would be the University of Phoenix. Are people just as/more impressed with a degree from that online university? My expirience says absolutly not. Whether it is right or wrong, there is a perception that online degrees are "lesser", and I am not going to try and argue either way, but especially in law, where the school does count, that would be a MAJOR hit against any graduate. The lawconomy (yes, making up words now) is rough at this point, I am not sure its as tough as some people are trying to make it sound, probably to try and dissuade some people from going into it in an attempt to somewhat lessen the stress on the market. Don't get me wrong, its tough to find jobs, but especially from an online or unaccredited school, it is just damn near impossible. It can be done, but its tough.

Most non-ABA schools do not publish employment statistics, so I really can not compare them, but I guess the fact they do not publish them speaks volumes. Also, I don't believe any online JD's are approved by ABA, I know there is at least one L.L.M. that is approved online. I would just say overall bad investment.
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exspes

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Re: Best Law Schools according to lay perception
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2010, 11:25:50 AM »
Here is where I get my thought on it from, in undergrad people who used the CLEP test to get credit for classes they never took were seen by the vast majority of students in the school as smarter than the guys who had to sit in a chair for a semester to end up in the same place. I can't think of anyone, anywhere who actually thought negative of it.

the white rabbit

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Re: Best Law Schools according to lay perception
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2010, 08:04:42 PM »
Here is where I get my thought on it from, in undergrad people who used the CLEP test to get credit for classes they never took were seen by the vast majority of students in the school as smarter than the guys who had to sit in a chair for a semester to end up in the same place. I can't think of anyone, anywhere who actually thought negative of it.

So...based on your experience, you think the average layperson "would be like 'oh my god, you must be a genius!!!! You are self taught, wow!!!!'"  There's not enough in there to be pretty sure of anything, really, right? 

I know it seems like I'm splitting hairs, but it's an important distinction.  :)
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lawboy81

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Re: Best Law Schools according to lay perception
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2010, 09:32:29 PM »
I don't think online degrees carry much weight...
I did define "lay perception" in OP as what does the typical college educated person think? I think most college educated people know that University of Phoenix is not exactly the most competative degree.

bigs5068

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Re: Best Law Schools according to lay perception
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2010, 09:43:35 PM »
Sometimes being self-taught is benefecial and if you are self-taught those lessons are more benefecial than schooling.

My old roomate got a felony while in college and got kicked out and he got out and obviously nobody would hire him, but he is quite smart with no degree. Anyways, he started his own business since nobody would hire him and he needed computer programers he kept hiring students from school, but they kept messing it up. So he decided to teach himself how to program and he figured out he ended up making his own business and then he get a job at Mozilla making 200k a year now even with a felony, because he started something from the ground up no degree or anything, but he really knows the stuff.

I think school in any instance doesn't teach you what you REALLY need to know and the only way to learn practical things is by actual experience. He is a perfect example of that he does not even have a B.A. in computer science yet he makes more than a lot of programers with masters because he knows how to do it.

exspes

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Re: Best Law Schools according to lay perception
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2010, 11:59:30 PM »
short of actually doing a full on cross country survey, all anyone (including you) can do is give guesses and their own opinions based on the facts they have available to them. I gave other layman in semi-simular situations, you just gave "I dont think they would".

Here is where I get my thought on it from, in undergrad people who used the CLEP test to get credit for classes they never took were seen by the vast majority of students in the school as smarter than the guys who had to sit in a chair for a semester to end up in the same place. I can't think of anyone, anywhere who actually thought negative of it.

So...based on your experience, you think the average layperson "would be like 'oh my god, you must be a genius!!!! You are self taught, wow!!!!'"  There's not enough in there to be pretty sure of anything, really, right? 

I know it seems like I'm splitting hairs, but it's an important distinction.  :)