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Author Topic: Tier 4 Law Schools  (Read 32236 times)

HardWorking

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Re: Tier 4 Law Schools
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2010, 04:04:06 PM »
Did you fail out of a tier 4? It seems you have no idea about you are talking about. I go to a tier 4 and it has worked for me up to this point and the majority of people who actually put WORK in. There are people that sit around and bi**h about this that and the other who are not making and people who screw around on their labtops during class and never do the reading who failed out. Bottom line is it is up to YOU for the most part not your school to make it in the legal profession.

No, I didn't fail out of law school.  In fact, I turned down a few Tier 3 and Tier 4 law schools after talking to friends who have attended top tier law schools and can't find jobs.  I realized it was a waste of money if I wasn't going to attend a good school.  You say you attend a Tier 4 law school and it shows in your writing ability.  Notice your second sentence and how it makes no sense.  That just proves my point.  Maybe you should stop lying to yourself about your career prospects with your tier 4 degree.  A tier 4 law school is fine if you plan on staying in the same state as that school.  If not, you are just hurting yourself. 

the white rabbit

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Re: Tier 4 Law Schools
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2010, 04:24:55 PM »
I go to a tier 4 and it has worked for me up to this point and the majority of people who actually put WORK in.

Bigs, the point is that as someone who's only gone through one year of law school, you're not in any place to evaluate whether or not it will actually work for you.  "Up to this point" is kind of meaningless after one year of law school.

Also, to be fair, law school was pretty useful for the MBE stuff.
Mood: Tired but cheerful.  :)

Cicero

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Re: Tier 4 Law Schools
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2010, 05:41:25 PM »
@Hardworking: So does this mean you decided against going to LS all together or you turned down scholarships from the T-3/4? (You seem really set against the T-3/4 schools and have posted a lot about them, so I'm wondering whether your opinions are based on the opinions of your friends or it is because you have completed  law school and have experience with the job market.)

bigs5068

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Re: Tier 4 Law Schools
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2010, 07:16:50 PM »
He has not gone to law school at all and therefore has no idea what he is talking about. He knows some people and things did not work out for them, but shocking things don't work out for a lot of people in fact Harvard, Stanford and Yale do not have a 100% bar passage rates. I know that I have a long a way to go, but people like this guy hardworking who do not even go to law school and our knocking law school piss me off. I don't know that much about the legal profession yet, but I am getting paid to work in a law firm and at least I have gone through one year of law school. This person has not done a damn thing and he is going out of his way to knock law schools.  Hardworking you have 0 idea about what your talking about, because you have never even gone to law school. You don't know how hard your friends worked at their tier 4's that they are complaining about. I could blame my college basketball coach for not getting me to the NBA, but it was me who was not good enough not my school or my coach's ability. People take no accountability for themselves particularly most of the ridiculously spoiled people in law school. 

Notice how I am not commenting on Georgetown Law School at all? The reason for that is I don't go to Georgetown and I don't live on the East Coast so I have absolutely no clue about Georgetown or how employment works on the East Coast and I won't comment as if I know anything about it. I know what happens in the first year of law school at my tier 4 and that is why I am writing about it.

Advocate

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Re: Tier 4 Law Schools
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2010, 09:31:40 AM »
Quote
Barbri does help you significantly, but law school gives you the basics of what you need to know about how to pass the bar. Basically like teaching you to ride a bike before doing the tour de france. I imagine at Georgetown your first year you learned about consideration in a contract, the elements of negligence, easements, personal jurisdiction am I right? 

Meh-

I think most smart people could pass the bar with a few months pre-study + Barbri.

Sure, I learned the things you mentioned in law school, but the following is a list of subjects I did not take in law school (but are on the bar exam):
Conflict of Laws
Criminal Law
New York Procedure
Secured Transactions/Commercial Paper
Trust/Wills
Agency
Domestic Relations
Worker's Comp
No-Fault Insurance
Leases/Mortgages

The chances of me ever needing to know anything about the above subjects is close to 0 (secured transactions excepted), but I've got to learn them for the bar. By contrast, the bar exam does not test on a ton of classes I did take in law school. For example, I'm 8 tax credits short of an LLM, but the bar exam does not test federal taxation.

I agree with nealric. Most law schools are absolutely not designed with a mind to bar preparation. But, to be honest, bar prep isn't that hard. It's just tedious memorization of clear-cut, black-letter laws. Then, the bar exam is like a super-charged high-school test -- multiple choice or mindless essays to be written in cookie-cutter (IRAC) fashion. A (relatively intelligent) parrot could do that!

I think it's a good thing that most law schools emphasize teaching students how to "think like lawyers" and understand the traditions of the law, rather than teaching to the bar. The JD is a professional doctorate degree after all! As an aside, my understanding is that some of the lower ranked schools (which generally have students who are comparatively worse at standardized testing) have more required "bar courses" and generally focus more on bar preparation in law school.

bigs5068

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Re: Tier 4 Law Schools
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2010, 03:16:25 PM »
I think that is true, tier 4's are more geared to helping you pass the bar. If you can get into T14 schools then the bar is probably as much of an issue for you and they probably have more electives.  Shocking as it may be the majority of people don't get 170 on their LSATs and if only Harvard and Georgetown lawyers were out there then there would simply not be enough.  Tier 4's are geared to help you pass the bar and generally work in public interest or smaller firms, which you can do if you pass the bar.  If you go to a tier 4 and pass the bar you will probably get A job probably nothing glamorous, but if you have passed the bar in California at least you can work in one of the po dunk counties as a D.A. or public defender there are jobs all over the place if you have a J.D. and pass the bar. However, most of them are not glamorous or anything you see on T.V. You may likely not live in the most glamours city either, but even people in Weed, California have legal rights and lawyers work there.

SASS

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Re: Tier 4 Law Schools
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2010, 11:28:22 PM »
I don't know why I still comment every time I see a thread bashing a T4 but I just can't help myself.  I went to a T4 and transferred to a T20 and I can personally say that the education is vastly different.  By different, make no mistake I mean BETTER.  T4's are not worth the money, either to pay or accepting a scholarship.  Most students don't have any business being in the schools and the schools are simply trying to make money.  Sure, maybe the profs want to teach, but they would rather be at a better school, I assure you.  I know there will be plenty of people who attend some T4 who will immediately reply and say I am wrong, but I attend a T4, I am talking personal experience. If you don't attend a good school, you don't have a clue.  I hope this prevents someone from taking my path, even though it has now worked out for me.  I am lucky to have transferred.   

Cicero

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Re: Tier 4 Law Schools
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2010, 11:32:35 PM »
I'm hoping to transfer from a T-4 to a T-1 (though the ones I've applied to are not quite as high up as T-20). What differences did you notice? What was better?

bigs5068

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Re: Tier 4 Law Schools
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2010, 01:20:49 AM »
I can think of some examples where a professor would rather teach at a tier 4 or 3 opposed to a tier 2 or 1 school. Many professors would rather teach at a tier 4 or 3 in New York San Francisco than in Lincoln, Nebraska or East Lansing, Michigan.

I am sure top schools are better and will open more doors particularly if you want to work in Big Law. I don't think any tier 4 student is quite as naive to think that their school is as good as Harvard. It will be an uphill battle from any tier 4, but you CAN win it. There are no guarantees though.  I do find it funny that everybody that is still in school comments about how successful they are already. 

Really any of us don't know how it will actually turn out until 10 or 15 years down the line.

cooleylawstudent

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Re: Tier 4 Law Schools
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2010, 02:03:48 AM »
If you listen in class, 90% of the people seem to think they were the top 10% last term. I find that interesting.

I can think of some examples where a professor would rather teach at a tier 4 or 3 opposed to a tier 2 or 1 school. Many professors would rather teach at a tier 4 or 3 in New York San Francisco than in Lincoln, Nebraska or East Lansing, Michigan.

I am sure top schools are better and will open more doors particularly if you want to work in Big Law. I don't think any tier 4 student is quite as naive to think that their school is as good as Harvard. It will be an uphill battle from any tier 4, but you CAN win it. There are no guarantees though.  I do find it funny that everybody that is still in school comments about how successful they are already. 

Really any of us don't know how it will actually turn out until 10 or 15 years down the line.