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Author Topic: Do NOT go to law school (a sincere warning)  (Read 24217 times)

lawrookie

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Re: Do NOT go to law school (a sincere warning)
« Reply #70 on: April 20, 2010, 09:37:49 PM »
finals were over a week ago. Besides, like I had said in addition to midterms I had taken the actual previous years finals and then read the grading scale to see how I did on it. As for these ones, honestly its just meeting the elements and knowing what constitutes what. How hard is that? You just read a few chapters each night and take notes during the semester, stand up to answer questions on what you read and give opinions on hypos about it and other related subjects, ignore the guys sleeping in the backrow and then take your final. Undergrad was harder, you actually had to show effort, now you just have to show up.

As for the risk analysis as I have said numerous times your degree is for life and any industry has ups and downs.  Real estate brokers were making tons of money a few yeras ago now it is bad and it will go up again.

Stockbrokers were balling in the 20's then this thing called the great depression happened and the industry was dead in the 30's then it came back and then it rose then it fell your profession is for life. 

The cause said last year a firm hired 6 graduates and this year only one. Who knows maybe the next two years 0 and then in 3 years they may be searching for anybody with a J.D. Market's fluctuate that is how America works.  Just because you are in bad spot now does not mean you will be forever.

A lifetime goes for awhile.

Lawrookie law school is hard as I remember you have not even taken a final yet. So you really shouldn't be saying anything, getting goods on your midterms means jacksh*t.  Maybe you are just a genius though and if so good for you. 

the white rabbit

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Re: Do NOT go to law school (a sincere warning)
« Reply #71 on: April 20, 2010, 10:46:43 PM »
The cause said last year a firm hired 6 graduates and this year only one. Who knows maybe the next two years 0 and then in 3 years they may be searching for anybody with a J.D.

Is there any reason to believe this scenario will occur given the current supply of J.D.'s and the rate at which new ones are being produced?

Also, resume gaps make a candidate less desirable.  A degree may be for life, but if you've been out of the legal profession for a few years before trying to get back in, chances are that you'll lose out to the person who's been in the whole time, or even to the person who is fresh out of school.
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cooleylawstudent

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Re: Do NOT go to law school (a sincere warning)
« Reply #72 on: April 20, 2010, 10:50:58 PM »
so then stay in a law related field, if you have to go federal join JAG or a govt civilian regulatory agency. Work for the IRS,etc. If you have to find work delivery pizzas or something else completely off the legal radar then still volunteer as a lawyer at free legal clinics and keep the experience(including as much court room as possible) up to date, don't just sit on your thumb and then cry because your sore down there.  :-\


The cause said last year a firm hired 6 graduates and this year only one. Who knows maybe the next two years 0 and then in 3 years they may be searching for anybody with a J.D.

Is there any reason to believe this scenario will occur given the current supply of J.D.'s and the rate at which new ones are being produced?

Also, resume gaps make a candidate less desirable.  A degree may be for life, but if you've been out of the legal profession for a few years before trying to get back in, chances are that you'll lose out to the person who's been in the whole time, or even to the person who is fresh out of school.

the white rabbit

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Re: Do NOT go to law school (a sincere warning)
« Reply #73 on: April 20, 2010, 10:54:10 PM »
so then stay in a law related field, if you have to go federal join JAG or a govt civilian regulatory agency. Work for the IRS,etc. If you have to find work delivery pizzas or something else completely off the legal radar then still volunteer as a lawyer at free legal clinics and keep the experience(including as much court room as possible) up to date, don't just sit on your thumb and then cry because your sore down there.  :-\

You make it sound like these gigs are easy to get.  Also if you managed to get a JAG position or civilian regulatory agency position, you wouldn't be one of the people with a gap in their legal resume, now would you?

Working as a volunteer is all fine and good, assuming you can find a volunteer position that will provide meaningful experience.  You're assuming these are in plentiful supply.
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cooleylawstudent

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Re: Do NOT go to law school (a sincere warning)
« Reply #74 on: April 20, 2010, 11:03:01 PM »
They are easy in those areas. Virtually any physically able person with a JD can be JAG, and if handicap the civilian groups aren't that hard either. People mostly don't take them since they want the 160K jobs not the 40K ones.

As for the volunteer legal groups, I am only in my second term and have been doing so for a full term along with lawyers who do the same thing. Most have their own real jobs and volunteer on the side a few hours a week, but some are either at the start of their career(just passed bar looking to beef up resume) or end of their career(just helping out between trips to vacation home and grandkids) It's not that hard to do this type of stuff, its the 100Kplus ones that are hard.


so then stay in a law related field, if you have to go federal join JAG or a govt civilian regulatory agency. Work for the IRS,etc. If you have to find work delivery pizzas or something else completely off the legal radar then still volunteer as a lawyer at free legal clinics and keep the experience(including as much court room as possible) up to date, don't just sit on your thumb and then cry because your sore down there.  :-\

You make it sound like these gigs are easy to get.  Also if you managed to get a JAG position or civilian regulatory agency position, you wouldn't be one of the people with a gap in their legal resume, now would you?

Working as a volunteer is all fine and good, assuming you can find a volunteer position that will provide meaningful experience.  You're assuming these are in plentiful supply.

the white rabbit

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Re: Do NOT go to law school (a sincere warning)
« Reply #75 on: April 20, 2010, 11:08:16 PM »
They are easy in those areas. Virtually any physically able person with a JD can be JAG, and if handicap the civilian groups aren't that hard either. People mostly don't take them since they want the 160K jobs not the 40K ones.

And you know this how?  I suspect that people would take a $40k government job over no job, so why in the world are there unemployed lawyers?

Most have their own real jobs and volunteer on the side a few hours a week, but some are either at the start of their career(just passed bar looking to beef up resume) or end of their career(just helping out between trips to vacation home and grandkids) It's not that hard to do this type of stuff, its the 100Kplus ones that are hard.

That's fair enough, though I suspect that the ones working volunteer gigs will still be significantly disadvantaged compared to those who haven't had a break in their full-time legal employment.  But I'll grant that they have a better chance of getting back in than those who don't do anything related.
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TheCause

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Re: Do NOT go to law school (a sincere warning)
« Reply #76 on: April 20, 2010, 11:14:12 PM »
bigs:

The legal market doesn't look like it's going to behave normally for a while.  More people took the Bar and the LSAT last year than ever before.  Law school tuition is still rising because enrollment is going up, and there is very little market pressure for schools to change that.
So the cost of entering the profession is going up, and the market is getting more and more flooded.

Yes you can go to law school and find a successful career, and the market might get better over the next few years, but things have changed.

For example:  I'd recommend going to a T3 school with a full scholarship over a school ranked around 50 for full price.  Four years ago? No way.


cooleylawstudent

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Re: Do NOT go to law school (a sincere warning)
« Reply #77 on: April 20, 2010, 11:29:24 PM »
How? Pretty damn easy actually, I asked. They'll hire you while you're still in lawschool and pay you're lawschool for you if you know for a fact it's what you want. You have to pass some simple tests(like the asvab) but I took that back in my enlisted days, and a drunken chimp with down syndrom can get at least a passing score on it.

People don't do it for a variety of reasons. Fear of officer school. Not wanting to move. The idea of haveing a 4 year contract that they can't quit without going to prison. Stuff like that I suspect.

They are easy in those areas. Virtually any physically able person with a JD can be JAG, and if handicap the civilian groups aren't that hard either. People mostly don't take them since they want the 160K jobs not the 40K ones.

And you know this how?  I suspect that people would take a $40k government job over no job, so why in the world are there unemployed lawyers?

Most have their own real jobs and volunteer on the side a few hours a week, but some are either at the start of their career(just passed bar looking to beef up resume) or end of their career(just helping out between trips to vacation home and grandkids) It's not that hard to do this type of stuff, its the 100Kplus ones that are hard.

That's fair enough, though I suspect that the ones working volunteer gigs will still be significantly disadvantaged compared to those who haven't had a break in their full-time legal employment.  But I'll grant that they have a better chance of getting back in than those who don't do anything related.

the white rabbit

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Re: Do NOT go to law school (a sincere warning)
« Reply #78 on: April 20, 2010, 11:33:22 PM »
How? Pretty damn easy actually, I asked. They'll hire you while you're still in lawschool and pay you're lawschool for you if you know for a fact it's what you want. You have to pass some simple tests(like the asvab) but I took that back in my enlisted days, and a drunken chimp with down syndrom can get at least a passing score on it.

And the part about the civilian jobs?
Mood: Tired but cheerful.  :)

cooleylawstudent

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Re: Do NOT go to law school (a sincere warning)
« Reply #79 on: April 20, 2010, 11:36:16 PM »
same thing. You ask, they tell. Many pay simular to military and yes many won't let you quit either. Here is the military officer pay scales for 2010 to show you what they make(low for lawyers but high compared to enlisted)



2010 Basic Officer Military Pay ChartPay Grade Years of Service
Under 2 Over 2 Over 3 Over 4 Over 6
O-10
See Note 1          
O-9          
O-8 9399 9707 9911 9969 10223
O-7 7810 8172 8340 8474 8716
O-6 5788 6359 6777 6777 6803
O-5 4826 5436 5812 5883 6118
O-4 4164 4819 5141 5213 5511
O-3 3660 4149 4479 4884 5117
O-2 3163 3602 4149 4289 4377
O-1 2745 2858 3455 3455 3455


How? Pretty damn easy actually, I asked. They'll hire you while you're still in lawschool and pay you're lawschool for you if you know for a fact it's what you want. You have to pass some simple tests(like the asvab) but I took that back in my enlisted days, and a drunken chimp with down syndrom can get at least a passing score on it.

And the part about the civilian jobs?