Is Cooley Law School That Bad?

[newlawkid]

Ouch. Well I guess I see the point. Long term it would make more sense. It's just really hard to envision another 5 years being too broke to buy diapers on the chance that I could get into U of M or State.

(Not to divert from the thread, but -) Do you see many women in biglaw? I only ask because if I'm limited to small town law firms anyway, it might be better to just get it over with. Wouldn't being top 5% of a class make up for the fact that it's a school with poor reputation?

Not sure what "huge flame" means, but to clarify, the average starting salary for a cooley grad is 47K and the average for a Wayne State grad is either 70K or 100K depending on year/website. I'm pretty sure I was agreeing with you..

[FalconJimmy]

Ouch. Well I guess I see the point. Long term it would make more sense. It's just really hard to envision another 5 years being too broke to buy diapers on the chance that I could get into U of M or State.

Forget State.  Just forget it. 

Michigan, Stanford, Harvard, Yale... basically focus on the first 8 or so in the US News rankings. 

Forget all the others.

(Not to divert from the thread, but -) Do you see many women in biglaw?

The only two people I personally knew who made it into biglaw were both women.

Wouldn't being top 5% of a class make up for the fact that it's a school with poor reputation?

No way in hell is being top 5% at Cooley going to open any real doors for you.  What it will do is make you part of the very small minority of Cooley grads who find a job.  It won't make you competitive with the best graduates from the best schools.  What it will do is make you competitive with average graduates from average schools.

Not sure what "huge flame" means, but to clarify, the average starting salary for a cooley grad is 47K and the average for a Wayne State grad is either 70K or 100K depending on year/website. I'm pretty sure I was agreeing with you..

My guess is that the real number in both those cases is about half what those schools claim.

Go to U of M or a school better than U of M. 

If you don't believe me, just post a few posts asking recent grads of poorly regarded schools how they're doing in their job search.

Going to Cooley is, at best, a chance to compete for very low-paying jobs if you totally kick ass in law school.  For the vast majority of cooley grads, it's a fast track to unemployment in this hiring climate.

Cooley right now is a cheap shortcut.

You're going to get what you pay for, and you're going to end up with what most people get when they try to go for an easy shortcut.

[JDGuy86]

This seems like huge flame, but I'll bite:

[/quote]

Yes, very huge flame. Way off topic, and oozing of T14 or bust elitism.

[john4040]

Yes, very huge flame. Way off topic, and oozing of T14 or bust elitism.

Eh?

[john4040]

Ouch. Well I guess I see the point. Long term it would make more sense. It's just really hard to envision another 5 years being too broke to buy diapers on the chance that I could get into U of M or State.

Take out loans.  If you can get into the top 5 or so, chances are you'll be able to pay the loans off fairly quickly and have greater earning potential throughout your career.

(Not to divert from the thread, but -) Do you see many women in biglaw?

Yes.  However, many women in biglaw allege that there is a glass ceiling when being considered for partnership.  There is evidence to support their position.

Wouldn't being top 5% of a class make up for the fact that it's a school with poor reputation?

1.  I would not take that chance (Kids at TTTs are wildly competitive because there are a limited amount of jobs, performance in law school is not highly correlated with UGPA and LSAT score, and statistically, there's a great chance you won't end up in the top 5%);

2. Locally, yes.  Nationally, no.

Not sure what "huge flame" means....

It means you're bullsh1tting me.

the average starting salary for a cooley grad is 47K and the average for a Wayne State grad is either 70K or 100K depending on year/website.

Ummm... no.  Those salaries are compiled from the cream-of-the-crop of the class (the schools allow students to self-report their starting salaries - usually, only the top earners disclose their salaries).  Average starting salaries for those schools are probably around the $45K mark.

[Hamilton]

Not sure what "huge flame" means,

The vearcity of the whole "story" is suspect.  If it is a flame, well, still getting a fair and honest response.  If it's not, you can understand that the narrative is outside of the norm and there is no way to verify.

[Pdukes]

You can always defer your debt until you get a decent job.  Its not too bad once you start paying.  Payments are roughly 300/month.  That is really not much considering people pay over $100 for cell phones and $60 for a gym membership.  Making 50k out of school is reasonable and $300-400/month will not break you by any means.

[fortook]

$300 a month?  I envy you.  For the typical grad with say 120k, the payments are closer to $1000 per month.
 

[jack24]

You can always defer your debt until you get a decent job.  Its not too bad once you start paying.  Payments are roughly 300/month.  That is really not much considering people pay over $100 for cell phones and $60 for a gym membership.  Making 50k out of school is reasonable and $300-400/month will not break you by any means.

This is a fine argument if you really want to be a lawyer because of the day-to-day work.   But there are a lot of ways to make $50,000 without going into so much debt, not to mention the fact that law school takes three years out of your career.

Also, are you using IBR (income based repayment program) numbers for the repayment amounts?   A 50,000 student loan is 387.65 for 20 years.  Since Cooley's tuition is $30,000 a year and most students don't have substantial scholarships past the first year, I'd have to bet that the huge majority have $100,000+ in debt.  A $100,000 loan is $775 a month for 20 years.

However, if you make $50,000 your IBR payments on $100,000 will probably be:

205/month if you have a family of 4 
280/month if you have a family of 3
350/month if you have a family of 2
and
420/month if you are single with no kids.

Then everything you haven't paid after 25 years is forgiven.  But remember that your payments go up when your income goes up.  So if you hit it big 15 years from now, you'll have to pay all of it back including the massive amounts of interest.

[lawyerintraining]

so hitting it big is a bad thing? Isn't that like trying to pick bad lottery ticket numbers so to avoid taxes?