Is Cooley Law School That Bad?

[newlawkid]

Since I'm already in with 100% scholarship, would it be detrimental to take 3-6 credits a semester in addition to OU classes until I finish my B.A.? Would transferring from Cooley be a black mark or difficult to do?

[FalconJimmy]

It can be done, but it's difficult and problematic. 

For one thing, most transfers are 1Ls who finished their 1L year while attending full-time.

At that point, the only thing the school is looking at is your 1L gpa and class rank. 

If you're a part-timer, class ranks are problematic.  You might only have a class rank against other part-timers. 

Basically, it's darned dicey to transfer.  It can be done.  It is done every day, but it's not all that straightforward.

U of M takes about 30 transfers a year.  You might not get in.  What will you do, then?  Go to a different school halfway across the country?  Finish up at Cooley?  (If so, see previous note about "regret it for the rest of your life".  I'm not kidding when I say this.)

What makes you think Cooley wouldn't give you this same scholarship later if you don't enroll now?

Honestly, Kid, if you go to Cooley, I guarantee you won't even make it out of your 20s without hating yourself for it.  You'll be sitting there thinking, "Cripes... it could have been ME making $500,000 a year at this point in my life.  Instead, I'm going to go do my $35,000 a year job with the public defender."

I know a good friend who went to a newly accredited school.  (It's a 4T school.)  She finished 2nd in her class.  I asked her if she regretted not-going to a better school and her answer was basically that there isn't a day that goes by when she doesn't regret not-going to the best law school that would accept her.

That will be you if you go to Cooley.  Bank on it.

If you were some slacker with a 2.8 and a 152 LSAT, I'd be saying, heck yeah, go to Cooley.  Because a slacker with a 2.8 and a 152 isn't going to have a brilliant career ahead of them no matter what they do.

You've got a chance to be one of the very best of the best.  We're talking about you pulling down the kind of money that a professional athlete makes... but instead of making it for 10 years, you can make it for 40.

But there's only 1 way to do this.  You can't outsmart this problem.  You cannot create your own unique and creative solution and approach.

You have to do things the way they're done, which means getting that 4 year degree and going to a top law school.

[Hamilton]

Listen to Falcon!

[JDGuy86]

If you don't go to Cooley, you don't know enough to say its crap. Its good in its area, its just as good as most other 4th tier schools. Expensive? Maybe. More than any other private law school? Probably not.

For the Canadian student who started this thread, if you want to go back to Canada, it would be much better off to go to school in Canada.

Why does this topic keep coming up again and again? Its dumb, just redirect to an already discussed thread. There are probably 10 on this site alone.

[FalconJimmy]

If you don't go to Cooley, you don't know enough to say its crap.

The issue isn't whether or not it's crap.

The issue is that the perception of the school is horriffic.

If you can put together a legal career and never have to worry about what somebody else thinks about the school you went to, then Cooley is peachy.  I'm not being facetious when I say this.  I plan on hanging out a shingle at graduation and frankly, Cooley probably would have been fine as far as preparing me to do this.  (Or at least as fine as most other schools.)

Its good in its area.

Perhaps so, trouble is most people don't believe this.

its just as good as most other 4th tier schools.

Hmmm... how would you know if you didn't attend most other 4th tier schools?
 

Expensive? Maybe.

In my opinion, it's only expensive if you're a student who probably shouldn't be going to law school in the first place.  Their scholarships are very generous and not very hard to qualify for.

[blue54]

Note: in light of recent developments, this is all based on my opinion and should NOT be taken as factual.

Please listen to Falcon. He definitely knows what he is talking about with respect to Cooley. Besides, have you ever visited the law quad at UMich? It's pretty amazing. But that's aside from the point. Cooley has a real bad reputation, and in law, reputation is everything. There is a dichotomy between those in law school/practicing law, and those outside of it. Most people in Michigan who are not involved in law believe Cooley is good because they see the billboards up on I-96 or hear the radio advertisements on 95.5 and they see things like "ranked #2 in the country" and "get a degree on the weekends." Seriously, don't buy into it. Those who are outside the law do. Those who are inside the law realize that Cooley is one massive law school with 4 campuses stretched across the Michigan landscape, pushing out thousands of new lawyers each year to flood the market. You want to transfer from there? Good luck. If the grading curve doesn't kill you, then the reputation will. I worked for mid-size firm as a paid clerk during my law school tenure (I went to school in Michigan, but not to Cooley). We hired Cooley grads because they had to do an unpaid externship in order to graduate. As soon as they were finished with the externship, they were gone. No one who was paid in my firm went to Cooley. That shows you how those inside the law view Cooley. Please do not drink the kool-aid. Sure, Cooley teaches you the law just like UMich does, but lawyers are superficial. They want the glitzy shiny stuff. They want the best of the best, the cream of the crop. Doctors who go to school in the Caribbean learn just as much as the doctors who went to school at Harvard, but who do you think will have an easier time getting residency? Law school is no different, it is a good old boys elitest club, and I commend Cooley on trying to go against this trend, but it will never happen. People who defend Cooley either (1) go there and have no other choice but to defend it for sake of their own honor or (2) are the village idiots who are completely out of touch with the legal profession.

With your numbers, you are absolutely insane to debate this. Get a massive scholarship and go to MSU or Wayne if you have to stay in the area (Wayne places very well in Detroit, and MSU has quickly risen to become a well respected T2 school). University of Michigan is obviously the best, but if you are on a tight budget, look to Wayne and MSU, as they are both very well respected in Michigan.

There is plenty of Cooley bashing out there, and I am not going to pile it on, but please do your research. Don't think you will be able to transfer out, because law school is not like undergrad, and it is very difficult to transfer out with the curves and the competition. Furthermore, with Michigan's economy, attending a school with such a poor reputation is not a good idea. You are making more waiting at tables than many law grads are right now. Furthermore, you cannot work more than 20 hours in law school. Not only because it would be impossible to pass 1L year if you did, but because the ABA mandates that all students work no more than 20 hours, and if you are caught, you can get kicked out of school. This compiles the debt. If you are going to go into debt, it might as well be over a well respected school that places well even in a down market. For their on-campus interviews for 2L summer associate positions (OCIs) I think Wayne and MSU both had like 25 firms visit. University of Michigan had 500 firms. You know what the average salary was for these summer jobs? $2000/week. Yes, that's right, $30,000 for three months of work. I am unsure what Cooley's OCI numbers are, but I can assure you they are nowhere near what the top schools pull in (Cooley doesn't like to publish this type of information).

I know what it is like out there because I just graduated law school and am sitting for the Michigan bar next week. It's rough out here, with Detroit in the shape it is. Grand Rapids is doing okay. Varnum hired some of my friends and started them out at just over 100K. It can be done, but it takes a lot of work and a reputable school. If you are scoring that high on your LSAT and have such a high GPA, I know you are smart enough to make the right choice. 

[newlawkid]

Thanks for all the comments. I looked up the six law schools in Michigan on Gradschools.usnews.rankingsan dreviews.com and found out that the average starting salary between even Wayne State (tier 3) and Cooley is an extra zero on the end. I definitely see the logic. If transferring is as hard as you say, I guess I'll just keep plugging away at a BA. From what I read, it's not like undergrad where you just pick your classes and show up; it actually matters if you follow the program (yes?).  If I were going to transfer - supposing I could with an A.A. - would they look at Cooley the same way, making it difficult there as well?

oh and re: the following

3.  Did you prep for that 173?  If not, prep for the next one.  (There are inexpensive ways to do this, btw.) 

I took it in October of Senior year (H.S) for extra credit for my employment law class. It was friggin looong but kind of fun over all. No idea what I was doing, but my parent used to get me those puzzle books where six friends sit in six seats and eat six different types of pies and you put 'em in order yada yada yada. And I guessed at the rest. I'm pretty sure I just got lucky.

[FalconJimmy]

Kid, you are like a young man with a 95 mile per hour fastball who is being offerred a 5 million contract but instead is thinking he should try coaching high school baseball.

If you did that well in High School, with a little preparation, you could find yourself someplace really, really astounding.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who is looking at you and thinking:

1.  Astronomical GPA.
2.  Fantastic LSAT and quite likely huge room for improvement if you prep for your next try.
3.  Working and supporting a family while completing undergrad?  That's the type of personal statement that admissions committees fall all over themselves to rush an acceptance to.

You should be setting your sights on Harvard and Yale. 

Anything else and you're wasting your potential.

My offer to buy you lunch to try and sell this to you is still on the table.  You would be wasting your talent to go to Cooley or any other school like that.

From what you've written, you have an extraordinary intellect.  It will be your shot to big money and a better life than you ever dreamed possible. 

If you throw this away, you'll regret it forever.  I know I keep saying that, but it's true.

[FalconJimmy]

Do realize law school or any form of education is a LONG-TERM investment. As far as the good old boys club goes it might be true in some places and not true in others. People will bash and say good things blah blah, but at the end of the day no matter what school you go whether you succeed or fail will be on you.

Bigs, you know I respect your perspective, but seriously, if you're talking about the difference between attending Cooley, even with a full-ride, and attending, say, NYU or U of Chicago or UMich even at sticker price, surely you would not advise a person to go to Cooley.

[john4040]

Thanks for all the comments. I looked up the six law schools in Michigan on Gradschools.usnews.rankingsan dreviews.com and found out that the average starting salary between even Wayne State (tier 3) and Cooley is an extra zero on the end......

This seems like huge flame, but I'll bite:

You would be absolutely stupid to attend Cooley with those numbers - even on full scholarship.  You are a lock at most of the T14 and are highly competitive at HYS.  Most of the T14 is worth attending at full price and it would be worth it to go ahead and get a bachelor's degree. 


Bottom line:  If you are considering attending Cooley over a T14, I question your ability to make a rational thought, and you have no business practicing law.