cooley in the fall

[CooleyGrad]

I'd just like to make a post on this thread.. As a student who will be attending Cooley- Ann Arbor in January on an honors scholarship.

I give no consideration to Cooley's rankings, I have not & will not even look at them. Frankly, I wish the school would stop publishing them and to be just another 4th tier law school- I too believe this would greatly raise the reputation of the school. Heck, maybe I can join a student group and make that happen lol.

Also, on to the employment aspect. It's absolutely right that Cooley grads will 99% of the time not get 100k + law jobs especially out of law school. However, getting 50-75k jobs as lawyers in  government, public interest, small firms, and in house counsel positions is just as likely as any other 4th or 3rd tier law school graduate. And, particularly for students on scholarship the available options shouldn't be as dismal.

I personally am turning down Widener part time for Cooley Ann Arbor considering both are 4th tier & Cooley will cost me half as much as Widener.

So, I will restate my main points here so this can be took in as proper context as possible:

1- Cooley's rankings are irrelevant & more than likely should be rid of.

2- Cooley grads have a fair shot at jobs that are typically available to graduates of 3rd & 4th tier law schools, particularly in Michigan & the midwest.

3- Cooley can be an affordable option in this bad economy- possibly an attractive option compared to other 4th tier schools charging double what Cooley does for tuition. I would surely take Cooley over Detroit-Mercy or Dayton.

And finally 4th- Yeah, Cooley grads are 99% of the time not getting big law/100k + jobs out of law school & they shouldn't expect to. Cooley will also tell you to plan financially with this understood.

I hope people will start regarding Cooley for the 4th tier school that it is that can produce public service lawyers and small firm community advocates.

Good luck to everyone out there with your apps & legal career.

I applaud your immense ability to pidgin-hold, limit, and restrict yourself as a Cooley graduate before you have even sat for a single class.  Your classification of Cooley graduates as primarily "public service lawyers and small firm community advocates" is incorrect and frankly insulting.

If these are your true mental impressions, then I strongly recommend (as a graduate of Cooley) that you take CJScolia's advice and not attend Cooley, because you will be eaten alive.

There is nothing wrong with someone going to Cooley, as they do with every school, wanting to be a public defender or work in a small firm, but to reduce "99%" of the graduates to that is factually inaccurate and shameful.

Your opportunities are no lessor than any other 3rd or 4th tier school.  In most situations, after you have been in the "real world" for 2-4 years no one even cares where you went to school, unless your firm happens to be fundamentally involved in an alumni association.  The firms just want to know how you will make them money.

[JDGuy86]

I applaud your immense ability to pidgin-hold, limit, and restrict yourself as a Cooley graduate before you have even sat for a single class.  Your classification of Cooley graduates as primarily "public service lawyers and small firm community advocates" is incorrect and frankly insulting.

If these are your true mental impressions, then I strongly recommend (as a graduate of Cooley) that you take CJScolia's advice and not attend Cooley, because you will be eaten alive.

There is nothing wrong with someone going to Cooley, as they do with every school, wanting to be a public defender or work in a small firm, but to reduce "99%" of the graduates to that is factually inaccurate and shameful.

Your opportunities are no lessor than any other 3rd or 4th tier school.  In most situations, after you have been in the "real world" for 2-4 years no one even cares where you went to school, unless your firm happens to be fundamentally involved in an alumni association.  The firms just want to know how you will make them money.
[/quote]


Congrats, you've joined the ranks of the attacking posters on LSN.. good job feel good now?  What I Said was that it is unlikely that a cooley grad would directly out of law school from Cooley with a JD be starting in a law firm making 100k plus. Just merely saying that going to Cooley or most any law school with that expectation would be misguided.  And, feel free to get the employment statistics from LSAC or Cooley career services. For faster reference I'll just quote lsac:

- 80% employed within 9 months
- 50% in firms (with a firm being anywhere from 1 attorney to hundreds in the office)
- 18% in business
- 13% in gov't
- 5.7% in public interest
- 4.2% as judicial clerks
- 3.7% in academia

Its just important to be realistic about the future before taking on the 3-4 years in any law school- even though there is the slim chance that you could land an amazing, high paying position as you suggest.

I do agree that after a few years yes where you went will be decreasingly important, and your experience as an attorney would be more important.

Additionally, if you really went to cooley you might want to be appreciative of the few people that choose not to trash the school.

[CooleyGrad]

I applaud your immense ability to pidgin-hold, limit, and restrict yourself as a Cooley graduate before you have even sat for a single class.  Your classification of Cooley graduates as primarily "public service lawyers and small firm community advocates" is incorrect and frankly insulting.

If these are your true mental impressions, then I strongly recommend (as a graduate of Cooley) that you take CJScolia's advice and not attend Cooley, because you will be eaten alive.

There is nothing wrong with someone going to Cooley, as they do with every school, wanting to be a public defender or work in a small firm, but to reduce "99%" of the graduates to that is factually inaccurate and shameful.

Your opportunities are no lessor than any other 3rd or 4th tier school.  In most situations, after you have been in the "real world" for 2-4 years no one even cares where you went to school, unless your firm happens to be fundamentally involved in an alumni association.  The firms just want to know how you will make them money.

Congrats, you've joined the ranks of the attacking posters on LSN.. good job feel good now?  What I Said was that it is unlikely that a cooley grad would directly out of law school from Cooley with a JD be starting in a law firm making 100k plus. Just merely saying that going to Cooley or most any law school with that expectation would be misguided.  And, feel free to get the employment statistics from LSAC or Cooley career services. For faster reference I'll just quote lsac:

- 80% employed within 9 months
- 50% in firms (with a firm being anywhere from 1 attorney to hundreds in the office)
- 18% in business
- 13% in gov't
- 5.7% in public interest
- 4.2% as judicial clerks
- 3.7% in academia

Its just important to be realistic about the future before taking on the 3-4 years in any law school- even though there is the slim chance that you could land an amazing, high paying position as you suggest.

I do agree that after a few years yes where you went will be decreasingly important, and your experience as an attorney would be more important.

Additionally, if you really went to cooley you might want to be appreciative of the few people that choose not to trash the school.
[/quote]

I have zero appreciation for people that claim that cooley grads are limited to public service and small firms.  And am sorry that I am not bowing down before you because you only have mildly/moderately misinformed things to say about the school.  Seriously, give me a break.  Your own figures from the LSAC show 5.7% being employed in "public interest" which show that your original statements (now watered down) were grossly inaccurate.

I really think you are missing the point -- you haven't even stepped foot in the school and have the wrong attitude.  It not only will severely impair your ability to succeed at Cooley, but also reflects poorly on the school itself.

You are essentially settling before you have even been served with a petition/complaint -- whether you realize it or not.  Maybe you should appreciate the direction/advice of something that has already been down the road that you haven't even seen yet.

[JDGuy86]

I will correct my statement, I AM interested in pursuing public service through law school - As I have through undergrad. Through going to Cooley this will provide the necessary training & I am aware of the pay for such public service positions.  And public service includes government, academic, and public interest figures.

[cooleylawstudent]

Anyone who disses Cooley is a raceist because they know we have the highest URM population in the country! I don't care if 70% of Arizona citizens do vote for it, bring in Obama to stop it! I hear he has at least one friend who's a professor at a "T1" school, so he probally knows a thing or two about academics too. Just don't speak out of turn, or he'll call you a Jackass.

[CJScalia]

Well the implication was that there was some sort of "smack talk" -- but I agree with your revised approach. However, I do disagree with you in regards to firms not considering anyone from 150 schools because of their ranking/prestige. Take Texas Wesleyan, in Ft. Worth, Texas, it is a 4th tier school.  You are telling me that if I were to graduate -- lets say 4th overall in my class -- that Jones Day, Thompson & Knight,  Baker Botts, Vinson & Elkins, Fulbright & Jaworski, and Hughes & Luce wouldn't consider me at all?  I have a very hard time agreeing with that.

To be a bit philosophical today; Reality does not care whether you agree with it or not.

And most of those firms are TTTs anyway

Additionally, my final term at Cooley, I was able to receive academic credit for a full-time and unpaid externship with a firm in my home state.  I never even had to interview for a job because the firm was able to see how sharped my skill set was and how ready I was "out of the box" that they didn't give a damn where I went to law school.  I think it is something that Cooley does mainly because the majority of the students that graduate don't practice in Michigan.  Everyone attorney that I have explained the process to, including my uncle who is a partner at a "BigLaw firm", has claimed that all school should adopt a externship/clinical program like Cooley's.

Funny how none of the "BigLaw firms" actually give a rats ass about that when recruiting people then.

The great thing is that when you are offering 40/hrs a week of unpaid slave-labor -- you can get your foot into just about any door you can imagine, and for myself, and my close friends that went to Cooley, that is all we needed to get jobs.

No, you really can't. Try getting your foot inside the door at Cravath, SullCrom or the USAO?

Mind you, it's not my argument that the current hiring model (AKA the Cravath model) is a good one, nor a fair one. I simply report what reality is, flawed as it may be.

[Michigan_Saintsfan]

Depends on if you're scared of a courtroom or not. If you are a lawyer and a CPA you can help your clients out of a hell of a lot more pickles then just getting them to the halfway point and passing the buck onto someone else. You can charge a fee that reflects that too. If a CPA tries that, they go to prison.

You seem to have some unrealistic expectations to the value of just having a law degree. Nobody is going to care about your JD or LLM if you're actually going to be an accountant, it has no effect whether you will be on top or on bottom of the market. It will only be wasted money and time.

A CPA may represent clients in Tax Court and many state-level administrative courts FYI

[cooleylawstudent]

Yeah and play "red light, green light" with what they can do. Real smart.

Depends on if you're scared of a courtroom or not. If you are a lawyer and a CPA you can help your clients out of a hell of a lot more pickles then just getting them to the halfway point and passing the buck onto someone else. You can charge a fee that reflects that too. If a CPA tries that, they go to prison.

You seem to have some unrealistic expectations to the value of just having a law degree. Nobody is going to care about your JD or LLM if you're actually going to be an accountant, it has no effect whether you will be on top or on bottom of the market. It will only be wasted money and time.

A CPA may represent clients in Tax Court and many state-level administrative courts FYI

[JDGuy86]

To get this back on track..

Who's going to be starting @ Cooley this summer/fall/winter?? 

I will be at ann arbor in january part time.