cooley in the fall

[CJScalia]

just because you can't keep up dosn't make the facts less valid. Like you said "who would want the accountant to go to court?" Answer, no one who dosn't want him in jail for it. That being said, you if you have to go to court you have to pick between yourself or a lawyer, not a CPA,MBA,etc.

But we were talking about people working as accountants. Not people working as lawyers. If you want to do brain surgery, it'd be helpful to have an MD, that's equally irrelevant to this discussion. I'm starting to see why you're 1) at Cooley and 2) think Cooley is a good school.

[CooleyGrad]

Depends on if you're scared of a courtroom or not. If you are a lawyer and a CPA you can help your clients out of a hell of a lot more pickles then just getting them to the halfway point and passing the buck onto someone else. You can charge a fee that reflects that too. If a CPA tries that, they go to prison

You're starting to make less and less sense for every post you make.

If you have a law degree, but work as an accountant, you cannot go to court. And why the @#!* would anyone want their accountant to go to court anyway? That makes a grand total of zero sense.

Man, I don't mean to be a buzz kill, but you are valuating a law degree at least 20 times more than it's worth.

Mind listing the names of the partners and firms that told you this?  I was concerned that moving back to my home state would be an issue but, generally speaking, no one knows anything about cooley here.  Besides, it has been my experience that firms are more interested the work that you actually do for them.

Cooley's main claim to fame (or infamy) is the publishing of their own rankings, claiming to be the 12th best law school in the country. In fact, if they had the common sense to not do that poo, nobody would really give a poo, Cooley would be "just another law school" down the rankings. But because they're trying to, quite literally, deceive people into attending their school, they get a horrible reputation.

I think the extra ranking system is silly too -- that is both of our opinions -- but since being back in my home state I haven't met anyone that has even heard of the alternate ranking system.  So please answer my question -- what are the names of the partners/shareholders and their firms that have told you this -- otherwise it is just another opinion on a message board.

[CJScalia]

I think the extra ranking system is silly too -- that is both of our opinions -- but since being back in my home state I haven't met anyone that has even heard of the alternate ranking system.  So please answer my question -- what are the names of the partners/shareholders and their firms that have told you this -- otherwise it is just another opinion on a message board.

I think you can assume that's exactly what it is. I can't imagine anyone sitting in a job interview asking; "Well, what if I went to Cooley? Would you hire me then?". I can only speak for the firm I'll be working at this fall, and I don't have the impression they're talking bad about any schools. There's probably 150 schools they're not going to hire someone from, but I really can't see them smack talking about any of them. That's more what law students do. Law firm partners are generally grown ups, and act accordingly.

[JDGuy86]

I'd just like to make a post on this thread.. As a student who will be attending Cooley- Ann Arbor in January on an honors scholarship.

I give no consideration to Cooley's rankings, I have not & will not even look at them. Frankly, I wish the school would stop publishing them and to be just another 4th tier law school- I too believe this would greatly raise the reputation of the school. Heck, maybe I can join a student group and make that happen lol.

Also, on to the employment aspect. It's absolutely right that Cooley grads will 99% of the time not get 100k + law jobs especially out of law school. However, getting 50-75k jobs as lawyers in  government, public interest, small firms, and in house counsel positions is just as likely as any other 4th or 3rd tier law school graduate. And, particularly for students on scholarship the available options shouldn't be as dismal.

I personally am turning down Widener part time for Cooley Ann Arbor considering both are 4th tier & Cooley will cost me half as much as Widener.

So, I will restate my main points here so this can be took in as proper context as possible:

1- Cooley's rankings are irrelevant & more than likely should be rid of.

2- Cooley grads have a fair shot at jobs that are typically available to graduates of 3rd & 4th tier law schools, particularly in Michigan & the midwest.

3- Cooley can be an affordable option in this bad economy- possibly an attractive option compared to other 4th tier schools charging double what Cooley does for tuition. I would surely take Cooley over Detroit-Mercy or Dayton.

And finally 4th- Yeah, Cooley grads are 99% of the time not getting big law/100k + jobs out of law school & they shouldn't expect to. Cooley will also tell you to plan financially with this understood.

I hope people will start regarding Cooley for the 4th tier school that it is that can produce public service lawyers and small firm community advocates.

Good luck to everyone out there with your apps & legal career.

[. . . . . .]

Don't take the scholarship to Cooley. Look it up. Many people lose the scholarship.

[cooleylawstudent]

To keep the scholarship you only have to maintain a 2.0 (stay off academic probation)

Don't take the scholarship to Cooley. Look it up. Many people lose the scholarship.

[JDGuy86]

yes, you only need to maintain a 2.0 or "satisfactory academic progress" to keep the scholarship.

[cooleylawstudent]

whats your source? whats the stats?......a guy told me in a bathroom once while takeing a pooo...


"Yeah, well I bet that's what Cooley told you,huh?" No *&^% sherlock,
If you want the real info on a scholarship ask the school, its that simple.

Don't take the scholarship to Cooley. Look it up. Many people lose the scholarship.

[CooleyGrad]

I think the extra ranking system is silly too -- that is both of our opinions -- but since being back in my home state I haven't met anyone that has even heard of the alternate ranking system.  So please answer my question -- what are the names of the partners/shareholders and their firms that have told you this -- otherwise it is just another opinion on a message board.

I think you can assume that's exactly what it is. I can't imagine anyone sitting in a job interview asking; "Well, what if I went to Cooley? Would you hire me then?". I can only speak for the firm I'll be working at this fall, and I don't have the impression they're talking bad about any schools. There's probably 150 schools they're not going to hire someone from, but I really can't see them smack talking about any of them. That's more what law students do. Law firm partners are generally grown ups, and act accordingly.

Well the implication was that there was some sort of "smack talk" -- but I agree with your revised approach. However, I do disagree with you in regards to firms not considering anyone from 150 schools because of their ranking/prestige. Take Texas Wesleyan, in Ft. Worth, Texas, it is a 4th tier school.  You are telling me that if I were to graduate -- lets say 4th overall in my class -- that Jones Day, Thompson & Knight,  Baker Botts, Vinson & Elkins, Fulbright & Jaworski, and Hughes & Luce wouldn't consider me at all?  I have a very hard time agreeing with that.

Additionally, my final term at Cooley, I was able to receive academic credit for a full-time and unpaid externship with a firm in my home state.  I never even had to interview for a job because the firm was able to see how sharped my skill set was and how ready I was "out of the box" that they didn't give a damn where I went to law school.  I think it is something that Cooley does mainly because the majority of the students that graduate don't practice in Michigan.  Everyone attorney that I have explained the process to, including my uncle who is a partner at a "BigLaw firm", has claimed that all school should adopt a externship/clinical program like Cooley's.

The great thing is that when you are offering 40/hrs a week of unpaid slave-labor -- you can get your foot into just about any door you can imagine, and for myself, and my close friends that went to Cooley, that is all we needed to get jobs.  

Full disclosure though, I have a friend who did the externship in FL at a DA's office and they will be volunteering their time after the bar with the office in return for a paid assistant DA's job once they pass the bar.  The office apparently doesn't hire people without their actual bar card.  But this really isn't a Cooley issue -- the other 5 of my friends that I am graduating with have jobs lined up.  As for the rest of the class -- who knows.  But I always come back to the point that Cooley gives people the chance and tools that you need if you are willing to kill yourself for three years.

For most of us it is a means to and ends.  And the ends are nearly what you have made them out to be.

I didn't proof read this -- have to run to court --- hope it makes sense.

MODFICATION: K&L Gates -- my bad.  I was just listing them off of the top of my head and forgot that they voted to combine firms.

[nealric]

Well the implication was that there was some sort of "smack talk" -- but I agree with your revised approach. However, I do disagree with you in regards to firms not considering anyone from 150 schools because of their ranking/prestige. Take Texas Wesleyan, in Ft. Worth, Texas, it is a 4th tier school.  You are telling me that if I were to graduate -- lets say 4th overall in my class -- that Jones Day, Thompson & Knight,  Baker Botts, Vinson & Elkins, Fulbright & Jaworski, and Hughes & Luce wouldn't consider me at all?  I have a very hard time agreeing with that.

Unfortunately, that's exactly what I would tell you. I'm not defending the practice, but the reality is that those firms don't hire from Texas Wesleyan. Don't believe me? Check the firm's websites. There are no attorneys from Texas Wesleyan at any of those firms. (BTW Hughes and Luce no longer exists).