Law School Discussion

Do not listen to what people say about T-3 and T-4 schools on this site


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This is another thing that goes directly point that if you are going to Georgetown etc you should not be giving advice on tier 4's. Do you really think I thought I would be doing international merges & acquisitions when I walked of the stage of GGU? No you would probably expect that at Georgetown, but many people in tier 4's will be more than happy to do DUI defense. That is my point the door is kind of closed to tier 4's to do international mergers & acquisitions etc. Of course a few people sneak in and that is the way it is. People at tier 4's have way different expectations than those at Georgetown. 

People have a variety of expectations. Over the years I've been involved with law school discussion boards, I've seen literally hundreds of posts asking about the international law program at "Insert T3/T4 school." I've seen dozens of "Will by finance background get me into 'corporate law' if I go to T3/T4 school?" I've talked to several prospective law students in real life who are planning on T3/T4 schools and think they are going to do "corporate law" and make a lot of money. This is not at all unexpected; plenty of T3/T4 schools list "median" starting salaries in excess of $100k on their recruiting brochures.

I've always told people that if they've done the math of realistic probabilities and realistic debt load, and are OK with the result, and they really want to go to law school, then they should go for it. If someone happy doing DUI defense for 40k a year, more power to them. Someone's got to do it. But I feel like a lot of people don't understand what doors they may be closing by settling. A lot of people who could go to higher-ranked schools end up at lower ranked ones because they refuse to properly prepare to study for the LSAT. One thing I always tell people is that there is a lot to be said for the "can do" attitude expressed by many people considering T3/T4 schools. However, for the vast majority of people, the LSAT is truly the path of least resistance for setting themselves up for the opportunities they desire. 

My observation of a lot of the strife that happens on this and many other law school discussion boards is the conflation of ex-ante advice, and ex-post derision of already made choices. I usually advise people to avoid T4 schools before they have made their decision. However, I would never denigrate someone who is currently attending a T4 school. Some of the most impressive people I have met through various legal internships were people who absolutely dominated at their T3/T4 schools. Nevertheless, people who attend T3/T4 school sometimes interpret the ex-ante advice as a personal attack on them- it really isn't. While some people do get off on denigrating others for their school choice, I truly believe that they are a small minority of posters.


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Well it seems we have finally come to an agreement. If someone is going into a tier 4 expecting to get hired as an associate at Big Law firm right after graduation they will be disappointed. Maybe if they are in the top 1 or 2% of the class they have a shot, but otherwise it is probably not going to happen. GGU gave me a list of people with salaries and what they were and I think 5 people made 150K more at graduation so that was probably the top 1 or 2% of the class. If you finish that high at any school you will have some opportunities. However, there is a 98 to 99% chance you won't be in the top 1 or 2 percent wherever you go.

I will be quite happy if I can graduate and make 50-60K at graduation and could deal with making 35-45K. Maybe I won't get a job at all and I might not even pass the bar that is a possible.  However, when people say things like tier 4's are are profit-generating companies that care only about money and are terrible because of that all I can say is so does every school. Or the professors only care about money and to that all I can say is every single law school is a business and they care about getting paid first & foremost. If the professors at Georgetown stop getting paid they are not showing up same with GGU. If you refuse to pay your tuition at Georgetown they will not let you take classes same thing here and at Cooley. Law schools are business and their brochures contain puffery. At every school they exaggerate, but if you want to be a lawyer you should be able to realize when there is a little bit of B.S. going on. GGU gives me a median salary as do all schools, which is again b.s. I don't know they give the median instead of the MEAN (average salary of everybody) I mean I guess the answer is obvious the median looks better, but that is a whole other issue.

That was an irrelevant tangent and I am on a I-phone so I don't feel like revising, but when I started this post all I was trying to say is that GGU, Touro, etc these schools are ABA approved law schools and they will teach you the law.  They will not kick out 25% of the class and your resume will not look worse by having graduated law school and passed the bar. However, you have to use common sense and realize law schools are not equal and there is about a 99% chance that a Harvard/Yale Grad is going to make more money than a Cooley Grad and get first dibs on top jobs.  However, you can and probably will get something if you go to a tier 4. Odds are you won't be working on 500 million dollar mergers, but you can find a job.

So the key thing I have been trying to say is if you want to be a lawyer go to law school and any ABA school can help you achieve that goal. Being a lawyer is generally not as glamorous as the media portrays either and you will probably not get rich. Most lawyers don't have private jets and monstrous offices. The majority of them are paying off the ridiculous amount of money  it costs to go to law school. Most lawyers work in mid, to small firms and it will take years for most people to get away from the debt.


T4 looks better on an application. T1's look like daddy tit sucking babies who need a diaper change every 10 minutes. Lots of work, little return, and cry for money they dont deserve. :'(

T4 looks better on an application. T1's look like daddy tit sucking babies who need a diaper change every 10 minutes. Lots of work, little return, and cry for money they dont deserve. :'(