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Author Topic: Do not listen to what people say about T-3 and T-4 schools on this site  (Read 8484 times)

bigs5068

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Yes the name of your school matters, but if you are good at something people will notice. Steve Nash went to Santa Clara University, but he has won two MVP awards because he is good at basketball. Santa Clara is not a basketball school at ALL!, but he is good so nobody cares that he went to Santa Clara. There are very good lawyers then to Cooley, California Western, GGU etc if you win someone their case they will think your a good lawyer. If you went to Harvard and you lose them a million dollars they are not going to think your a good lawyer. Your performance matters the most, but yes it certainly helps to go to Stanford or Harvard.  If you have a choice of paying full price at Santa Clara or half the price at GGU who really cares? The 88th best school or the 112th? Your not impressing anybody with those numbers. That is why ranking outside of the top 25 or so is pretty retarded.

the white rabbit

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For med school and veterinary school you generally have to have a biochem, chem, or biology degree to apply for the program (and I know for vet you generally need more of the biochem type degree). The med people take the MCAT, like we take the LSAT.  It seems like the "traditional background" degree is political science or a more general pre-law designation, such as pre-law/history, which are offered at most schools. Where I go to LS, most of the people seem to have polysci-like degrees.

I think that's probably the most common one, but it just runs such a wide range.  Maybe you're right, maybe polysci is the traditional background.  I don't know, I like to think we're a more diverse lot than that.  :D  :(
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nealric

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Yes the name of your school matters, but if you are good at something people will notice. Steve Nash went to Santa Clara University, but he has won two MVP awards because he is good at basketball. Santa Clara is not a basketball school at ALL!

Here is why law school is not like basketball:

Basketball is basketball, you are playing the same basic court with the same basic rules whether you are playing on a high-school freshman team or in the NBA finals. Although Kobe Bryant probably wouldn't get much of a chance to shine if he only played pick-up at the park, it would be exceedingly obvious from watching him play that he was head-and-shoulders above everyone he played against.

By contrast, the law is not really a single discipline, but a family of disciplines. For example, DUI defense and tax planning have very little common with each other. They are as different as basketball and baseball in terms of the skills required to be successful.

The problem with low ranked schools is that certain disciplines tend to be foreclosed (rightly or wrongly) to their graduates because they are never even given an opportunity to play the game. If you want to do tax planning for international mergers and acquisitions, but the only job you can find straight out of school is DUI defense, no matter what amazing skills you may demonstrate in DUI defense, nobody is going to even give you a chance to demonstrate yourself in the tax field. You can't dominate a game you aren't allowed to play.

Of course you can be successful from anywhere or from any background- I'm not contesting that- I just think your analogy is flawed. There are ways to overcome the limitation described above by either graduating at the very top of the class (in which case you will be given the chance to play), or by slowly working your way up through different disciplines while demonstrating ability (in which you are slowly allowed onto the court).
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bigs5068

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I will have to disagree with that a graduate from Cooley can standout the same way Kobe would in a pickup game. If someone from Cooley got a Witkin award in every single law school class they took, wrote articles in law reviews that were published in court opinions, won mock trial competitions across the country, and came to California and was allowed to argue motions in court while they were in law school (I don't if other states let you do that) and won every single motion they argued that would stand out the same way Kobe in a pickup game would.

So that exceptional Cooley student  would probably be hired over someone who finished at the bottom 25% of their class at Georgetown and did not have one internship while in law school.

the white rabbit

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I will have to disagree with that a graduate from Cooley can standout the same way Kobe would in a pickup game. If someone from Cooley got a Witkin award in every single law school class they took, wrote articles in law reviews that were published in court opinions, won mock trial competitions across the country, and came to California and was allowed to argue motions in court while they were in law school (I don't if other states let you do that) and won every single motion they argued that would stand out the same way Kobe in a pickup game would.

So that exceptional Cooley student  would probably be hired over someone who finished at the bottom 25% of their class at Georgetown and did not have one internship while in law school.

Okay but aside from that rare exception, what nealric says is true?
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bigs5068

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Yes I am not denying anything people are saying about Tier 4's being less than ideal. It will be harder to make it and you may never get a shot to do what you really want coming from Cooley or another tier 4. All I am trying is that if you want to be a lawyer then go to law school because you have a 0 percent chance of being a lawyer unless you go to law school. If you go to Cooley or GGU expecting 200K at graduation or if you expect that any from any law school for that matter you are going to be disappointed.

I just remember reading things about GGU and other schools that they have to kick out 25% of the class and nobody even looks at your resume for internships and that is just not true. I am just trying to apply common sense in that yes Harvard is better than Cooley we all know that I knew that when I was 5. However, if you go to law school you learn to become a lawyer, but there is a pecking order. Tier 4's are on the bottom of it, but you still are a lawyer when graduate and pass teh bar and hopefully becoming a lawyer was your goal when you started law school. Going to a tier 3 or 4 and working hard will allow to be a lawyer maybe you will stuck doing DUI defense who knows. You are still working as a lawyer and the vibe that people give off is that you can't even do DUI defense from a tier 4 and that is just not true.

the white rabbit

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All I am trying is that if you want to be a lawyer then go to law school because you have a 0 percent chance of being a lawyer unless you go to law school.

Why don't you add a caveat about the financial component?  Doesn't the fact that you can't expect to make more than a certain income coming out of some schools limit the amount of money that one should be willing to pay for those schools?
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cooleylawstudent

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myth. Starting salary expectations only.

All I am trying is that if you want to be a lawyer then go to law school because you have a 0 percent chance of being a lawyer unless you go to law school.

Why don't you add a caveat about the financial component?  Doesn't the fact that you can't expect to make more than a certain income coming out of some schools limit the amount of money that one should be willing to pay for those schools?

bigs5068

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 If you want to do tax planning for international mergers and acquisitions, but the only job you can find straight out of school is DUI defense, no matter what amazing skills you may demonstrate in DUI defense, nobody is going to even give you a chance to demonstrate yourself in the tax field. You can't dominate a game you aren't allowed to play.

This is another thing that goes directly point that if you are going to Georgetown etc you should not be giving advice on tier 4's. Do you really think I thought I would be doing international merges & acquisitions when I walked of the stage of GGU? No you would probably expect that at Georgetown, but many people in tier 4's will be more than happy to do DUI defense. That is my point the door is kind of closed to tier 4's to do international mergers & acquisitions etc. Of course a few people sneak in and that is the way it is. People at tier 4's have way different expectations than those at Georgetown.

I will compare to basketball again not everybody in the NBA is Kobe Bryant he would be offended if a team offered him a million dollars a year. He would be literally pissed off and angry, but a guy like Luke Walton will be very happy with it. Not everybody can be a star player in fact the majority of people are not and Kobe Bryant should not give Luke Walton advice on how to negotiate his deal because they are on two very different levels. Just like a Georgetown Grad and a Cooley Grad are. What is fine for a Cooley Grad might be unimaginable to a Georgetown Grad just like making only a million dollars for putting a ball in a basket would be appalling to Kobe Bryant, but most people would be pretty damn happy with it.


cooleylawstudent

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so they're a bunch of crybabies who need to get over themselves? My point exactly on previous posts.

"I can't find a job"  "here is a job"  "I'd rather be on welfare...... ???"