thinking of Toledo 2010 any help?

[homegr0wn]

(1)Not that this person is a whiny b***, but if you go to law school it is up to you to succeed. You can say my school did not do xyz for me, but a successful person will figure it out.... (2)No school even Harvard guarantees career success and it is up to YOU. Higher education is kind of a rip off, but you have to deal with it.

First point - LOL!
Second point -- totally detached from reality.

[bigs5068]

No not everyone passes the bar or gets a job from Harvard. Of course the vast majority do and I would be on a plane tonight if they let me transfer in. Still if you are a lazy pos and you went to Harvard people figure it out. I remember working in New York this girl was in top 10% of her class at University of Michigan. She was a horrible annoying person who did not get offered a job after her summer was over. She was just a b***h, she never got anything done and they had me editing her assignments. She was terrible and I don't know what became of her. Bottom line is even with a great pedigree things can go badly. 

Then I will continue my point to a school like Hastings, which is tier 1 and a pretty good school. I only know 3 graduates personally and that is all. I am sure there are plenty of successful Hastings grads, but I don't know them personally. Of the 3 I know 2 have yet to pass the bar after 3 tries and are unemployed. The other guy did pass on his first try, but has not found a job in over a year.  Going to the 38th best school did not open up anything and they paid more money than I am. As surprising as it may be going to the 38th or 43rd best anything will not have people begging you to work for them.

Here is Hastings stats. http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/clearinghouse/?school=hastings. This shows that only 55% of their graduates have their income reported. 45% of the graduates from a tier 1 school are doing god knows what. Probably something along the lines of the graduates I personally know. Only 88% of their students reported their bar results and that resulted in 340 people actually telling whether they passed or not. 65 of the 340 people that reported did not pass. I assume the other 12% that did not report failed, but I don't know. LSAC does not like to give to much detail in their numbers very similar to U.S. News. So this tier 1 school has a lot of people who failed the bar and only 55% of their class is capable of reporting a salary. This school even let me in through a transfer application, but I know that the 38th best school will not impress anyone. So I used my transfer acceptance to get even more scholarship from my school. GGU has significantly worse numbers than Hastings, but at the end of the day it would be on me to find a job from either school. I know I can figure it out on my own and I do not want to pay anymore money than I have to.  Higher education is a RIPOFF, but I have to deal with to become a lawyer. Paying anymore than I have to to get an ABA degree seems retarded. Unless of course I went to or a school similarly situated.  I don't think anyone would deny that Harvard, Yale, Stanford opens doors. However, even at  Harvard 10 people failed the bar this year. On top of that 15% of their students are unaccounted for. http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/clearinghouse/?school=harvard

Bottom line is a school guarantees you jack sh**. Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and maybe a few others are worth a ton of money. Outside of the top 20 schools you are on your own. Of course maybe you have a better shot at Big Law if you are in the top 10% at a tier 1, but you have a 10% chance of being in the top 10% of your class. Then even if you are in the top 10% of your class you likely have a 10-20% chance of getting hired in Big Law from a low tier 1. Education is a ripoff and thankfully I did not pay anything for undergrad because of basketball. I am paying as little as possible now. People can stress out about the rankings and be naive enough to think 48th best is going to impress anyone. Pay a 100k to say I go to the 58th best school knock yourself out, but I have never been impressed by the 58th or 48th best anything.

[homegr0wn]

I don't think anyone would deny that Harvard, Yale, Stanford opens doors. However, even at  Harvard 10 people failed the bar this year. On top of that 15% of their students are unaccounted for. http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/clearinghouse/?school=harvard

Even those 10 who fail the bar will be living lavishly compared to the 10 who fail the bar from a T2,TTT,TTTT.

Bottom line is a school guarantees you jack sh**.

Nothing is guaranteed. Average salaries are reported and T2,TTToledo, TTTT are no comparison to T14 average salary. So, 15% of T14 don't make 160K a year starting out? Big deal. The majority do, and they will continue to do MUCH better than their lesser counterparts.

[bigs5068]

I am pretty sure that girl from Michigan is unemployed. She was awful people just think everything is handed to you if you do certain things, but that is not the reality. Harvard grads can get disbarred and you can think people just have it easy if they go to xyz school. All I tried to do was use some facts, but apparently you do not seem to consider those. If you fail the bar and have a J.D. from Harvard you cannot work as a lawyer. If you can't work as a lawyer and all you have is a law degree odds are you will not be making much money. If took out student loans to attend Harvard the creditors will still come after you. When the 150k bill comes and you have not passed the bar and have no job. You cannot say excuse me sir I went to Harvard please waive my debts. That is not how life works.

There are plenty of successful tier 4 grads and plenty of unsuccessful ones. There are plenty of successful Ivy League Grads and plenty of unsuccessful ones. Life is what you make of it. Certainly helps to go to Harvard, but the rules still apply.

[homegr0wn]

If you fail the bar and have a J.D. from Harvard you cannot work as a lawyer.

I can think of some very significant judges who failed the bar multiple times.

There are plenty of successful tier 4 grads and plenty of unsuccessful ones. There are plenty of successful Ivy League Grads and plenty of unsuccessful ones. Life is what you make of it. Certainly helps to go to Harvard, but the rules still apply. 

I don't know what "rules" you're talking about, but if we look a success as a percentage of the class judged upon income, then your statement is far from eye-opening.
Bottom line is that grads from T3/4 have VERY VERY little shot at making nearly as good a living as those from T14. While I transferred from a T3 and and will make 160K (and I put NO EFFORT into searching for jobs outside of OCI), my friends that remained at the T3 are all unemployed -- except a few outliers who garnered 40K/year jobs.
Rankings matter, and law schools, at all levels, are scams. However, T20/T3/T4 will never produce an abundance of BIGLAW/mid-law lawyers.

[bigs5068]

Of course. I do not doubt it I am sure some very successful people have failed the bar. There are plenty of people that never do pass the bar.


There are people who never passed 4th grade that are millionaires and people from Harvard that are broke. Bottom line is the person needs to succeed you cannot write Harvard on your test. Nobody argues that Harvard does not help you, but it is not a guarantee of anything. I know plenty of people who went to UCLA for undergrad and law school not doing so hot. I know of people doing well from there as well. I know plenty of people from Chico State doing well for themselves. I also know plenty of people from Chico State not doing so hot. The rules apply to everyone and it is easier to succeed in life if you went to Harvard, but it is no guarantee of anything.

[FalconJimmy]

Mark this post -- Toledo will be ranked as a T4 school next year

Mad props.  Well played.