thinking of Toledo 2010 any help?

[Kire]

I appreciate your honesty, 1256, and sadly must agree with you.  I'm just sick knowing I couldn't get into Tier 1 schools.  The thought did cross my mind about doing well to transfer out which will probably be my plan.  A former boyfriend, business major, probably said it best:  In law, the school name on the diploma is probably the most important deciding factor when it comes to employment or opening doors.  That said, my passion is law and I'll continue pursuit of the degree.  I never want to look back and think I didn't go to law school because I couldn't get into a Tier 1 school.  Let's face it - the magic formula of the Admissions Officers for LSAT/GPA/Personal Statements show this is the category of school that best fits me.  (However, when I look at the stats of Tier 1 admitted students with far lower LSAT and/or GPAs than me, I wonder what the heck these schools were thinking turning me down and admitting them - but that's a whole other story!)

[homegr0wn]

I think that a lot of outstanding posts have been made in this thread -- both pro and con. OptionK and others have some viewpoints that must be understood by any future UToledo student.

That being said, I have to disagree with OptionK's post that Toledo students do not get accepted to Michigan. I am accepted to Michigan after having a great year at UT -- I received the highest grade in a three of my classes. I also know of two other students that have been accepted to Michigan this year and one student that has a good shot at getting into Stanford (not the usual and almost no student would be able to accomplish this feat, but this student has a VERY UNIQUE background story). If anyone questions the ability for THIS YEAR'S class to transfer, then I will gladly post a picture of my acceptance package/letter.

However, I do agree with OptionK when (s)he mentions that Toledo's rankings are tanking. Toledo will be a T4 school next year, and this is something that any applicant should heavily consider. Rankings matter because.....THEY MATTER. There is no better way to explain rankings. The coming year(s) will be difficult for top 10 (Yale through Virginia) graduates to get a job, and Toledo students should be told and realize that their futures will not be great unless they garner a top 1-5% ranking. Even then, the job market is in such flux that Toledo will have a VERY DIFFICULT time placing graduates. Despite any notions that entering students may have about their intelligence and abilities, acquiring a 1-5% ranking is near impossible.

In the end, if you love law (which you can't say you do if you haven't attended law school) and just want to have a shot at practicing or getting into a great firm, then Toledo is a good/ok option. Otherwise, I think that the ABA should shut down law schools such as Toledo and compress the overabundance of law students.

Feel free to message me if you have any questions. I am truly just trying to help everyone have a successful/honest path. 

[homegr0wn]

doing well to transfer out which will probably be my plan. 

This is a really, really bad plan. NEVER plan on transferring out. Law school is so tough and there are so many intelligent people that a plan to transfer will not likely pan out.

NEVER EVER enter a law school with the plan to transfer because it most likely will not happen.

[homegr0wn]

So, if you plan on working hard, graduating with little debt, and not working for a big firm, UT will be just fine.  Don't worry about the rank of the school because it has far more to do with what you do with your degree after you graduate.

Well said, from a 0L who has no experience. In three years, let us know what being a waitress is like.

Sorry, not to be a horribly bitter person, but please do not talk about the what-if's and possibilities if you have not even stepped foot in a law school.

Your plan to transfer shows that you have yet to experience anything in regards to law school life. Your advice on law school is babbling and unnecessary.

[Kire]

I sincerely appreciate the open comments and advice from everyone - however brutal.  I am a 1L today at UT and have to admit what I'm reading in the posts are scaring the heck out of me.  I just wish I didn't love law so much...  All - please don't stop comments/suggestions as I need all the advice I can get.

[ilovelawtoo]

Kire, at least you are becoming informed - that will help a lot.  You sound serious, and that will put you ahead of 75% of the people at Toledo.  My advice is to seek out TA's and professors and really try to understand how to take law school exams.  Focus on rules and applying those rules to fact patterns.  Each rule you talk about is a potential issue on the exam and you should put them into a checklist (i.e. outline) for each exam so you can easily spot them.  Ask EACH professor a month or two before the exam (after you know a little bit about the subject) how EACH ONE wants you to write answers to his/her exam.  Every professor is different and the goal is to please them.  For example, some (most!) professors want you to state the issue, rule, application and conclusion, and some (the minority!) just want you to analyze the legal significance of certain facts.  DO PRACTICE EXAMS AND GO OVER THEM WITH THE PROFESSORS.  IF THEY GIVE YOU SAMPLE ANSWERS, COPY THE FORMAT/STYLE ON THE EXAM!!!!!  Don't feel like you are annoying professors by going to their office hours too much - exams are anonymous anyway so they will not knock points for being annoying.    The vast majority of your classmates will not do this, party too much, and approach the exams like they did in undergrad and they will not do well.  If you follow what I said in this paragraph, you will already be way ahead of the curve.

Tuition at UT is low enough that if you don't do well after your first year you can reevaluate your options and not take too huge of a hit, so try not to worry so much.  The bottom line is to focus on exams RIGHT NOW, and don't get caught up in the economy, law school gossip, or extracurricular activities (at least this year).  There's nothing you can really be doing to improve your job prospects right now except to try to get really good grades.

Also, try to keep things in perspective.  Best case scenario:  You will do really well at Toledo and be able to transfer or get a mid-sized firm legal job or great government gig.  Worst case scenario:  You will get bad grades and decide to drop out.  Notice that this worst case scenario isn't that bad; I know somebody who is really smart (but didn't understand law school exams) that dropped out after her 1L year and now she is loving her second choice of career.  It's easy to get stuck in a law school bubble - work hard, but try to avoid this.

[Kire]

Fantastic advice, ilovelawtoo, for your valuable and tangible advice.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH!  I welcome any other 'online law school mentors' including yourself if you think of anything else.  I'll be sure to write back and let you know how things are progressing this year.

[bigs5068]

Don't get to caught up in the rankings I was freaked out first year at my tier 4, but everything has been working out great up to this point. No matter what school you go to if you put the work in and really love the law it should work out. Of course it may not, but a nuclear war could start tomorrow also just put everything you have into your first year and no matter what happens if you know that you did everything you can do you succeeded no matter what the outcome. Also do not take the rankings to seriously, I have made about a million posts already explaining how poorly done the US News formula is how irrelevant it is. Of course Harvard and Yale are great schools, but Toledo is just as good as 100 other law schools.  I also worked for one lady who went to Toledo loved it and was doing well in the legal profession. Well good luck in your first year.

[homegr0wn]

Don't get to caught up in the rankings I was freaked out first year at my tier 4, but everything has been working out great up to this point. No matter what school you go to if you put the work in and really love the law it should work out... I also worked for one lady who went to Toledo loved it and was doing well in the legal profession. Well good luck in your first year.

To the first point -- no. Ranking mean the world to law school, and if you don't think so then look at OCI. 3 for Toledo? Try 120+ firms for a T20-30, and even more for a T14. Your post is back-patting bull.

To the second point -- no. I worked for A lady? So ONE PERSON is what you give the recommendation on? Have problems on the logic reasoning section of LSAT?

[bigs5068]

I'm a jobless 3L with a "Dean's List" GPA (~top quartile, I think) at a top-10 school with about 7 years of work experience in Internet tech companies, and I'm pretty much at my wits' end about my next steps.  Hopefully, someone here can offer advice.

This was another post on this site yesterday. Not that this person is a whiny b***, but if you go to law school it is up to you to succeed. You can say my school did not do xyz for me, but a successful person will figure it out. Not to mention tons of people on this very site who go to tier 1 or tier 2 schools complain about not finding jobs. The real world is hard and if you want to blame a school for your problems go ahead. No matter what school you go to in any field all you are getting for your time & money is a piece of paper. No school even Harvard guarantees career success and it is up to YOU. Higher education is kind of a rip off, but you have to deal with it.