thinking of Toledo 2010 any help?

[JDcandidate21]

i havnt seen a post here in a while so i am asking for an update
I am deciding between Toledo and Michigan State, i got instate tuition at toledo, everyone tells me Toledo over state, i also visited the school but that couldnt answer all my questions.

1) Toledo kinda looked like a lame city but the campus looked nice, how is the student housing, where to the law students live now?

2) What is there to do in toledo (when you are not studying)?

3) Hows the social scene with the students? is it friendly or are all the students just doing their own thing?

4) are they still doing that transitional program i have heard people complain about?

5) is there anything you know that you would tell a prospective student or an incoming 1L?? because reading the webpage can only tell me so much...

Also i was thinking of coming down for another visit some weekend and it would be cool to grab a drink with some toledo students (1st ones on me) let me know if you are interested.. thanks

[ondeadlin]

Toledo and Michigan State are somewhat similar options. You'll probably have slightly better job prospects in Michigan from MSU, much better job prospects in Ohio from Toledo. Toledo has the tuition advantage and is closer to Detroit, which is often useful for expanded internship opportunities in federal court and with the Wayne County prosecutor (in addition to similar opportunities in Toledo).

One overlooked advantage is Toledo's considerably smaller class size. Let's say there are 125 students in your class at Toledo and 200 in your class at Michigan State. Both schools are going to have about 25 people per class on law review, so you've got less competition for that and for OCI spots.

Toledo's been a good choice for me, but there are a lot of people graduating without jobs. The harsh reality is you better be in the top third of your class at either place to have any serious firm opportunities. And the "social scene" or a city's "lameness" should have absolutely no impact on your choice. You're about to live in the library for the next three years, at least if you want any shot at a good opportunity from a regional law school.

The answers to most of your other questions are offered in threads below. Whether a city is lame or not is a personal judgment, so I'd really discount what people say about that. What's lame to me might not be lame to you, what's cool to me might not be cool to you.

[LCE]

I am also considering Toledo law for next year! I am from the Toledo area (five minutes north over the Michigan boarder in a small town call Luna Pier). I go to CMU in Michigan and I did not apply to MSU though we have a very good relationship with their law school. I DO NOT want to live in Lansing/E.L. that is the sole reason that I did not apply there. I can't speak to their education considering I'm not a student there, but I will say that the head of admissions has been extremely helpful to my peers who have applied and has been willing to work with students. I hear its an up and coming school, so we will have to see.

I was granted the same instate at Toledo, which was a major selling factor for me. Plus I have my support system within twenty minutes.

Toledo is not exactly an amazing nightlife location. It has so many great hole in the wall bars, as well as an active community theater if you are interested in that sort of thing. There are multiple clubs, bars, coffee shops (Though not as many as most college towns). Great sports teams, The Mudhens and the Walleye, which are really awesome events to attend.

For housing, I would suggest looking on craigslist for starters, anything in West Toledo (Ottawa Park) would be close to the U. Downtown is making a comeback and there has been talk about moving the Law School to that location (most of the prominent Toledo firms are down there). I have heard that Olde Town is terrible (my best friend lived there for two years) just as a warning.

Given my location I have had contact with multiple UT Law alumni all of whom rave about the atmosphere at the law school. Most people I know say that the professors are fantastic, peers are competitive but not necessarily cut-throat (I suppose this depends on who you talk to). Overall, if you can get past the 1970's exterior of the actual building it seems to be a great place.


Where are you from? Just curious! Hopefully some of this was helpful, given I can only speak for the area and not the school because I'm in the same boat you are! Hopefully I'll see you in orientation!

[optionK]

Personally, I wouldn't choose either. If pushed, then MSU is a much better option. I've had two friends who went there, and both transferred to significantly higher ranked schools (Michigan and GULC). If transferring is on the agenda, then MSU by a mile -- U Mich is  very receptive of MSU law students for some reason. Toledo, on the other hand, has VERY limited transfer options. The only thing more limited than transfer options at Toledo may be the job options for graduates. However, if you're into collecting worthless degrees to plaster on the wall, then go ahead. I hear the law degree is printed on high grade paper, so you can also use it to build a shelter after graduation?

Yes, the transgender, er... transitional students are still a huge problem at Toledo. They're lazy rats that are supposed to become full-time in the Spring semester, but many of them drop classes and remain part-time. Toledo lays down BS about ending the transitional problem, but they never will. Hence, Toledo's ranking will never improve, hence even more limited job option ITE.

 

[Toledo2011]

Wow, optionK, you make me wonder if first semester grades didn't come back as good as you hoped ... I'm sorry you're so unhappy with your choice of Toledo, but once again you're heavy on smack and short on good information. There were three people accepted to Michigan last spring from UT - two went, one stayed. As far as transfers go there was also one to Notre Dame, one to Minnesota, one or two to Case and four to Cincy. Obviously Harvard and GULC aren't on the list, but maybe you can change that this year ... or maybe not, lol.

If you care to take the time to check Detroit firms, Cleveland firms and Columbus firms, you'll find more UT grads than Michigan State. The Spartans own Grand Rapids, though. If you like Grand Rapids.

Real nice transgender line, btw. Real mature. Not the sort of thing that's going to reflect well on you at school if you out yourself. So be careful on that front, huh?

[homegr0wn]

I think both of the above posters have some valid points when the personal bickering is removed. The transitional program is lame, but you're probably going to run into something similar at every lower-tiered law school.
I doubt MSU's only market is Grand Rapids. In all fairness, both schools will probably get you to the same point if you do well. Generally, you're not going to have a shot at the elite wall street firms -- those are relegated to Yale, Harvard, etc (T14 schools) graduates. But, those are far from my ideal job. I would despise myself for slaving away 60-80 hours/week and selling my soul. Outside of those jobs, Toledo will give you great opportunities -- as long as you try and don't expect jobs to call you.
So, MSU or Toledo will probably work equally well. I personally enjoy the faculty at UT because they are accessible and really enjoy helping students (most of them, of course).
Social scene considerations should be at the bottom of your list. If you're working as hard as you should, then social life is a thing of the past for most of the semester. However, Toledo should easily satisfy any social or intellectual pursuits that you'd want to make outside of school -- great zoo and museum, lots of places to choose from for night life (though most of these places are not situated in one particular area of the city).
In the end, I would choose whichever place is willing to give you financial help. That, to me, is the single most important thing. I wouldn't go to law school if I had to pay full price.

[optionK]

Wow, optionK, you make me wonder if first semester grades didn't come back as good as you hoped

To do any better in my first semester Toledo would have to award A+ grades. Still ridiculous for a TTT law school to shoot themselves in the foot by admitting those who cannot garner a 155+ on LSAT. BTW, what happened to your gracious insight that UT was ending the transitional program after fall 2010? Guess that didn't work out, eh Mr. Credible?

There were three people accepted to Michigan last spring from UT - two went, one stayed.

This directly contradicts what a Michigan Asst. Director of Admissions has written to me (that zero UT students were accepted last year). Someone is lying, and I'd guess it is not the Asst. Director of Admissions.

Obviously Harvard and GULC aren't on the list

Harvard will never be on the list because Harvard doesn't accept from TTT universities. After attending, I can see why.

Real nice transgender line, btw. Real mature. Not the sort of thing that's going to reflect well on you at school if you out yourself. So be careful on that front, huh?

Oh, OK. I'll be sure to watch my back. I didn't realize that UT is like 9th grade and someone will try to beat me up for not agreeing with their views. Maybe I have to worry that they'll take my degree away or my grades will suffer because some lonesome losers hate me? Perhaps they will take my summer position at a law firm away? I'm very frightened. Oh wait, I could care less.

[Toledo2011]

Well, this reply should put everything into perfect perspective for anyone attempting to evaluate how seriously to take your comments about Toledo. You can message me and I'll be happy to give you the e-mail addresses for both of my classmates who transferred to Michigan from Toledo. They're cool and I'm sure would be happy to speak about the school with considerably more class than you've shown on this board. Did you make that part up about the Michigan admissions director? I think maybe you did, because in addition to the two people from my class who transferred to UM, I know at least one 3L who did. Pretty easy stuff for a real admissions official to confirm.

You say a lot, but actually know much less than you think. Even if your grades really are as good as you say, you have a lot to learn.

And, yes, I'd say the transgender line and the immaturity that it represents certainly could cost you with employers, particularly in this economic climate.

[optionK]

Well, this reply should put everything into perfect perspective for anyone attempting to evaluate how seriously to take your comments about Toledo. You can message me and I'll be happy to give you the e-mail addresses for both of my classmates who transferred to Michigan from Toledo. They're cool and I'm sure would be happy to speak about the school with considerably more class than you've shown on this board. Did you make that part up about the Michigan admissions director? I think maybe you did, because in addition to the two people from my class who transferred to UM, I know at least one 3L who did. Pretty easy stuff for a real admissions official to confirm.

You say a lot, but actually know much less than you think. Even if your grades really are as good as you say, you have a lot to learn.

And, yes, I'd say the transgender line and the immaturity that it represents certainly could cost you with employers, particularly in this economic climate.

So, what happened to that ending transitional students, big guy??? You failed to answer that one even though you claimed UT would stop this semester. I give your credibility a zero rank. PS... I'm sorry I mentioned transgendered, as I know you are. In this economy, being a idiot dickhole is more persuasive to receiving no job offers than being honest. GTFO boner.

[Toledo2011]

That's great. The more you post, the better as far as I'm concerned. Everybody can see exactly what you're about and exactly how your evaluation of Toledo should be regarded.

As for the transitional program, what I said is that it was reduced this fall and will be ended next fall. It was reduced this year, even though your class is larger than the 2011 class. And it's certainly not next fall yet. Let's see what happens.

Don't want those e-mail addresses, huh? Why aren't I surprised ...