Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: T1 non T20 Law Schools - Worth it?  (Read 9240 times)

StonewallJacksonFan

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
    • Email
T1 non T20 Law Schools - Worth it?
« on: February 04, 2010, 09:32:38 PM »
I have heard a whole lotta crap about Tier Three Toilet and crappy T2 schools with no job prospects unless you are top 5% of class.  It seems like most people are advising against going to law school unless it is T14.  At the same time I hear some people who went to T14 regretting it as now many of them now end up with 150K in debt and the previously guaranteed biglaw job just out of reach.

I have been accepted in a law school rated in high 20s with a decent scholarship, with some part time jobs hope to graduate <5K in debt.  I LOVE law, and hope to get the top pay job upon graduation.  If I dont , I will be fine also though, as I am an accountant with several years expereince (hopefully, Doctorate on my resume will not screw me over with accounting jobs, lol).  I am trying to decide whether it is worth it to got to T1, T30 school in my situation. T1 seems ok, but I heard NYC people call Cardozo LS, which is T1 (#49) CAR-BOZO, since so many people from there become contract attorneys.  Any ideas people?

reez

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
    • View Profile
Re: T1 non T20 Law Schools - Worth it?
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2010, 04:08:32 AM »
If you want to be a lawyer, the top 30 is terrific.  But outside of the top 10 or so, landing "the top pay job" is very, very unrealistic (this year, you had to be in the top 10% of your class at T20 and in the top 5% of your class at a T35).

StonewallJacksonFan

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: T1 non T20 Law Schools - Worth it?
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2010, 09:23:29 AM »
Hmm, thanks for the quantitative info, I guess there has been a shift in percentages lately.  Well, hopefully the the class of '13 will have easier time getting a good job...

john4040

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 471
    • View Profile
Re: T1 non T20 Law Schools - Worth it?
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2010, 09:46:10 AM »
Well, hopefully the the class of '13 will have easier time getting a good job...

Don't count on it.  

BIGLAW firms are moving away from lockstep compensation and towards merit-based compensation.  Their hiring has slowed to an absolute crawl in the hopes that they can keep their PPP up.  Many firms are still extremely overstaffed and continue to defer first years and fire associates and partners.  There is a backlog of supply to the market as well - many attorneys who would have otherwise landed BIGLAW have taken Midlaw or Sh1tlaw positions.  My guess is that, when times get better, because these attorneys have both great credentials and experience under their belt (and are willing to be paid the same as a 1st year associate), BIGLAW will start hiring many more laterals and severely cut down on the number of first year associates (such that the firm is only doing a summer program in order to keep their relations with top schools/recruits).

StonewallJacksonFan

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: T1 non T20 Law Schools - Worth it?
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2010, 12:07:47 PM »
BigLaw may start hiring more laterals or they may not start hiring more laterals because these laterals may be taking the first year associate pay only to move up to a different firm a few months later.  The prediction makes sense but the law firms need fresh meat with no experience for 2-3 years because they know no new associate is running away before they hit the 2 year mark.  On the other hand the experienced qualified attorneys may not tolerate being treated like cattle and may be gone a lot earlier.

Anyway,  I am not worried about not getting the Biglaw job, if there is 1% probability I get that job, I am fine with it, since I wont have any loans, and my UG loans are gone.  LS will be a very time consuming hobby for me.  The only thing I am worried about is looking overqualified to the rest of the world with my Doctorate.

simonsays

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 175
    • View Profile
Re: T1 non T20 Law Schools - Worth it?
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2010, 04:06:39 PM »
I have heard a whole lotta crap about Tier Three Toilet and crappy T2 schools with no job prospects unless you are top 5% of class.  It seems like most people are advising against going to law school unless it is T14.  At the same time I hear some people who went to T14 regretting it as now many of them now end up with 150K in debt and the previously guaranteed biglaw job just out of reach.

I have been accepted in a law school rated in high 20s with a decent scholarship, with some part time jobs hope to graduate <5K in debt.  I LOVE law, and hope to get the top pay job upon graduation.  If I dont , I will be fine also though, as I am an accountant with several years expereince (hopefully, Doctorate on my resume will not screw me over with accounting jobs, lol).  I am trying to decide whether it is worth it to got to T1, T30 school in my situation. T1 seems ok, but I heard NYC people call Cardozo LS, which is T1 (#49) CAR-BOZO, since so many people from there become contract attorneys.  Any ideas people?


why are you applying to law school if you have a doctorate + accounting, especially in NYC?  There should be a zillion more lucrative options in Manhattan with a business doctorate background.

StonewallJacksonFan

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: T1 non T20 Law Schools - Worth it?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2010, 04:43:22 PM »
Sorry - I live in Richmond VA and pretty much settled here, definitely not moving to a bigger city. The doctorate I am talking about is Juris Doctorate.  I am a double B.S. in Accounting/Finance and CPA dude.  E.g., right now I could feasibly find an accounting job in Richmond that pays 80K.  But I really like law and am going to a top 30 law school within driving distance (guess which one, not T14).  If I cannot find a biglaw job after law school, instead of  getting a shitlaw 45-60K job I may try to get that 80K accounting job and sit the biglaw out.  But when the accounting hiring manager will see that I have JD he will get all scared of my credentials and deny me the job because of overqualification.

But accounting doctorate can be very lucrative - PhD in Accounting professors start at 130k and max out at 450k, 25 hour workweek....

wyatth

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 93
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: T1 non T20 Law Schools - Worth it?
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2010, 09:06:49 PM »
You are out of your mind if you think you will be denied a job because of "overqualification."

StonewallJacksonFan

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: T1 non T20 Law Schools - Worth it?
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2010, 09:33:57 PM »
You really think so? For regular people who graduated from Bumfack State with BS in BS a JD degree is like an MD degree.  If they see a guy with JD applying for a job with a 4-year college degree requirement for them it will be like a famous neurosurgeon walking in and applying for a receptionist position.  They will be confused and likely decide it is a joke a mistake or an act of desperation from on overqualified person who will likely scram at first opportunity.  A lot of people from T2 and T3 come to realize that JD might be a huge liability when you cant find a good legal job and try to land a regular business world position.  That is why so many people actually take JD off their resume to assure a successful job search...

simonsays

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 175
    • View Profile
Re: T1 non T20 Law Schools - Worth it?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2010, 10:17:47 AM »
i think you're overstating the value of a JD in large markets.  Yes, a JD may make you overqualified in some areas out in the sticks where passing a driver's license test or obtaining a high school diploma is considered a hallmark intellectual accomplishment.  But in most major markets a JD just makes you a small fish in a large pond.

I agree with the previous poster that a JD won't make you overqualified.  In this environment, the best bet is to gun for a legal area that can leverage your professional background.  I've visited Richmond a few times and was quite amused at conversations regarding people in California and New York, as if they're waiting for the 6 serpents of hell in Revelations to descend at any minute... This would make me want to talk more to local attorneys to see the value of a T14 over the regional school.  (At least search the bios on the web pages)