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Author Topic: Big Law Job after T2 Law School  (Read 6890 times)

StonewallJacksonFan

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Big Law Job after T2 Law School
« on: January 27, 2010, 01:37:15 PM »
If you go to T2 law school like University of Richmond, and then miraculously manage to get a job at top law firm, like Hunton & Williams(which interviews on campus), would 3-5 years of experience in the law firm help mitigate the ranking of the law school you went to?

nealric

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Re: Big Law Job after T2 Law School
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2010, 05:31:06 PM »
Yes. Besides, the only way you would get a biglaw job would be to be in the top 5-10% of the class- which means you will stand out with magna cum laude and law review on your resume.
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Contract2008

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Re: Big Law Job after T2 Law School
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2010, 12:28:37 AM »
Yes. Besides, the only way you would get a biglaw job would be to be in the top 5-10% of the class- which means you will stand out with magna cum laude and law review on your resume.

The only way?  I know tier 3 grad with median or below median grade who got into biglaw.  No, he was not on law review either, or any journal for that matter, but he is black though.

There are other ways to get into biglaw other than top school or top grades. 

StonewallJacksonFan

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Re: Big Law Job after T2 Law School
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2010, 11:15:13 AM »
I am sure that there are people from New York Law School with 2.5 GPA who got into big law.  When I got a job with Deloitte & Touche LLP straight from undegrad, they told us that they did not hire anyone with GPA less than 3.5, but in my new hire class there was a white guy from Washington & Lee with 2.75, no connections within firm...I think "the only way" deserves a modifier - realistically the only way, without relying on the gamble that it takes to be top 10% in a crappy law school with a 2.5 grade curve.  The bottom line is if you are bottom 30% in Appalachian School of Law, it does not mean u r not getting 160k job (while your chances of getting it might be <1%..), but if you are top 30% at William and Mary, there is probably a 95% chance you will get a big law job (if u r seeeking it) and thats the main bottom line.

Did not mean to bash people from NY Law School or Appalachian Law School (which were just examples), as I believe that students there are very smart and hardworking, but unfortunately they partied in college and were not great LSAT takers, and now they have to face the reality of rules of thumb modern legal profession in the US uses....

BikePilot

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Re: Big Law Job after T2 Law School
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2010, 01:28:50 PM »
I do think that the further out of law school you are the less it matters where you went for private practice jobs.  It will still matter for academic jobs and clerkships.  Do take a realistic look at the job market though - from the tone of your posts I think you have an overly optimistic view of the world.  What might have been true in '06 isn't true now.  Loads of big firms aren't hiring or are hiring at lower rates and in much lower numbers than before. At the same time law schools are graduating ever greater numbers of students with lots of debt.  Seems like most every day I hear about some poor sap who racked up huge debt only to find him/herself without the anticipated big-law job. Its going to take a lot more than top third at W&M to guarantee $160k/yr. 
HLS 2010

StonewallJacksonFan

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Re: Big Law Job after T2 Law School
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2010, 09:13:23 PM »
Agreed, BikePilot, I might be too optimistic.  The fact of the matter is that none of us really know FOR SURE what jobs that or another graduate will get.  There is NEVER such thing as 100%, there are just probabilities <100% which ALWAYS have to be based on historical trends, since most models and predictions anyone offers usually suck (unless they are made by Warren Buffet, who was rejected by UPENN, lol).

Based on my research top 1/3 of W&M graduates are highly sought after and I consider it is PROBABLE that if I try really hard I will make the 33% percent and get that biglaw job.

They say current unemployment levels will persist in 2016, so may be in 3 years you will have to be top 1% of W&M class to get 160K.

So I guess I am making too definite predictions, and I apologize for that.  The economy is sure to shake up the legal employment trends that we have been seeing in the past decade.

Alamo

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Re: Big Law Job after T2 Law School
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2010, 11:56:50 PM »
Depends who you knew there, and the impression you made.  If you worked for the hiring partner and he loved you, you've got a great shot with above-average grades.  If you made a bad impression on anyone who interviews you, you've got no chance.  If you made no impression, you've got a slightly better chance of getting a screening interview, but are probably no more likely to get a callback.

And honestly, your "research" is probably worthless now, or perhaps worse.  The only data that would be the least bit likely to indicate future prospects in the legal market going forward, which would be data from 2009 grads, is not yet available.  Thus, doing research is probably worse than worthless, because it will mislead you into thinking that you've got a much better chance than you do.  Just because W&M has a better reputation than UofR means very little if grads from both schools are climbing all over each other for jobs.
I must admit that I may have been infected with society's prejudices and predilections and attributed them to God . . . and that in years hence I may be seen as someone who was on the wrong side of history.  I don't believe such doubts make me a bad Christian.  I believe they make me human . . .

nealric

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Re: Big Law Job after T2 Law School
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2010, 11:56:31 AM »
Quote
The only way?  I know tier 3 grad with median or below median grade who got into biglaw.

You are taking me way too literally. Of course, there are always rare exceptions. Realistically, the OP will need to have several feathers in his/her cap from a T2 to get looked at by biglaw.

Quote
The bottom line is if you are bottom 30% in Appalachian School of Law, it does not mean u r not getting 160k job (while your chances of getting it might be <1%..), but if you are top 30% at William and Mary, there is probably a 95% chance you will get a big law job (if u r seeeking it) and thats the main bottom line.

I seriously doubt anybody in the bottom 30% of Appalacian School of Law has ever gotten a job that could be properly considered biglaw. That's more like a 1/10,000 chance (barring some extreme mitigating factors).

Just top 1/3 at W&M is very unlikely to be good enough ITE absent some other unusual factors. More like top 10-15%.
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StonewallJacksonFan

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Re: Big Law Job after T2 Law School
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2010, 01:55:44 PM »
Guys, thanks for bringing me down, it is important when you are about to drop 120k to be a public defender for 45k a year after graduation.  Not to be cocky, but I have 7 years of accounting experience and CPA license.  I own a small consulting business, rented real estate and have a wife that makes 6 figures.  Moreover, I am in-state and got a decent scholarship.  With these I will be graduating in 2013 from Top 30 with under 10k in debt, if that. I will not be crawling over other people for jobs, just standing aside and laughing at people who are.  For me JD is not the only way out like it is for all of the philosophy, history and politcal science majors (most of whom are very smart and capable, just cant find a job), but an extra gem in my crown.  So I just wanted to emphasize that I am not an average poor sap, but a smooth guy with 2-3 aces in his sleeve, and these aces are the main reason I am so optimistic.

P.S. I think this topic is very useful for people who are going to law school with huge loans and hope to get that biglaw job to pay the loans off, and no employment prospects outside of legal.  This discussion represents a very good reality check for people who are too optimistic about legal employment prospects.

nealric

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Re: Big Law Job after T2 Law School
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2010, 06:52:34 PM »
Quote
Guys, thanks for bringing me down, it is important when you are about to drop 120k to be a public defender for 45k a year after graduation.  Not to be cocky, but I have 7 years of accounting experience and CPA license.  I own a small consulting business, rented real estate and have a wife that makes 6 figures.  Moreover, I am in-state and got a decent scholarship.  With these I will be graduating in 2013 from Top 30 with under 10k in debt, if that. I will not be crawling over other people for jobs, just standing aside and laughing at people who are.  For me JD is not the only way out like it is for all of the philosophy, history and politcal science majors (most of whom are very smart and capable, just cant find a job), but an extra gem in my crown.  So I just wanted to emphasize that I am not an average poor sap, but a smooth guy with 2-3 aces in his sleeve, and these aces are the main reason I am so optimistic.

Your work experience won't mean that biglaw will be beating a path to your door. I've met plenty of people with similar backgrounds in my tax llm classes who can't get a second look by biglaw. On the other hand, it sounds like you have all the ingredients to be very successful in other avenues of the law. Frankly, someone in your situation doesn't need biglaw like your average 25 year old graduate does.  
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