St. Mary's School of Law (Unlocked)

[nealric]

thanks for filling me on the difference(and not wasting tax dollars on the clock too)

Does your position require a JD? 

I'm really surprised that a law student doesn't know what a federal clerk does. Not only does it require a JD, but it requires pretty sterling academic credentials. It's generally harder to get a federal clerkship than biglaw.

[cooleylawstudent]

Like you've said before, 1L. Don't worry I'm not self obessed enough to paste my IP address in hopes of proving it either.

[roblaw]

Look, I know my tone was over the top at times, but my facts were accurate.  My OP was intended to give a student's perspective of St. Mary's.  We don't have a marketing department like many schools, so I've decided that it's up to students to speak up about their experience.

John4040, I apologize for reading you as a pre-law student.  Nevertheless, I often do see a school getting flamed by young posters who have no actual knowledge.  I thought I'd just contribute my part.

My overall point still stands.  St. Mary's was very well respected in the past, and I am thankful to be a part of the gradual, continuing process of rebuilding its reputation.  It's exciting to see the direction everything is going.  I particularly emphasize that we've had Supreme Court Justices teach summer classes to St. Mary's students abroad for the last five years at our Innsbruck Institute.  Additionally, I think everyone is thrilled that we now have a China program, at which students will learn how to help businesses navigate the Chinese legal system.

St. Mary's definitely has its issues.  And yes, if you don't perform well, you'll have difficulty getting a good job.  But at the end of the day, I'm glad that I found myself here, and I'm excited that the class below me is even more impressive than my own.

[cooleylawstudent]

You have school pride(and it sounds like its well deserved) Hooah!

[john4040]

Look, I know my tone was over the top at times, but my facts were accurate.  My OP was intended to give a student's perspective of St. Mary's.  We don't have a marketing department like many schools, so I've decided that it's up to students to speak up about their experience.

John4040, I apologize for reading you as a pre-law student.  Nevertheless, I often do see a school getting flamed by young posters who have no actual knowledge.  I thought I'd just contribute my part.

My overall point still stands.  St. Mary's was very well respected in the past, and I am thankful to be a part of the gradual, continuing process of rebuilding its reputation.  It's exciting to see the direction everything is going.  I particularly emphasize that we've had Supreme Court Justices teach summer classes to St. Mary's students abroad for the last five years at our Innsbruck Institute.  Additionally, I think everyone is thrilled that we now have a China program, at which students will learn how to help businesses navigate the Chinese legal system.

St. Mary's definitely has its issues.  And yes, if you don't perform well, you'll have difficulty getting a good job.  But at the end of the day, I'm glad that I found myself here, and I'm excited that the class below me is even more impressive than my own.

I commend you for your school pride - I do not share your same enthusiasm for my school.  Nevertheless, my position still stands:  these opportunities that you have cited (summer program abroad taught by SCOTUS Justices, opportunity for clerkship / BIGLAW positions, etc.) are not particularly unique to your school and they do not justify taking on significant debt (~$90K tuition + living expenses).

Many schools offer summer abroad programs which typically feature elite professors, attorneys, or even SCOTUS Justices. Furthermore, clerkships and BIGLAW positions are typically available to top students at T3s and T4s.  This is nothing new.  Nor is the concept of alumni from a regional school maintaining a close-knit relationship with current students of that same school an anomaly.  Add to that the fact that state T1s and T2s are cheaper than St. Mary's, and you really have problems with your argument.

Once again, I understand your school pride, but nevertheless fail to see why these opportunities distinguish St. Mary's from any other law school.

[hilikus]

Here's some insight from a 1L at St. Mary's right now.

1.  I'm in section A, most of the professors are great, well educated, and very well respected
2.  The career services department which handles internships is ABYSMAL!  They pretty much tell 1L's an internship isn't going to happen which is such BS because it doesn't take much foot-work to find one.  And on-campus interviews for 1L's are few and far between. 
3.  The curve was moved up this year from a C+ to a B- for first years.
4.  I think I am getting a good education but it feels, at times, like the administration is less than professional in certain aspects of how the school is run. 

I knew the rep before going and I have to say it may been deserved at one time but I think it is getting better.

And one important note -- if you want to live and work in San Antonio you could do a lot worse than St. Mary's.

[roblaw]

John4040,

Actually, no, I don't think most T3 or T4 schools have what St. Mary's has to offer.  Show me the "many" schools at which students are taught by Supreme Court Justices.

Secondly, most people aren't left with the option or privilege of attending a great T1 or T2 state school.  That's exactly why I came to St. Mary's.

Finally, the debt is worth it.  Why?  Because I say so.  I'm taking on that debt, as are plenty of other people in order to enjoy what St. Mary's has to offer.  And on another note, I came here because I want to practice law, not because I decided that I wanted to be miserable for three years in order to have a better income.  The debt is worth it to me so that I can practice law.

I'm sorry that you don't know or appreciate St. Mary's.  I'm sorry that you had a bad experience at your school.  But some of us are proud of what we're involved with, so don't try to bring us down with you.

[cooleylawstudent]

Thats a good point about judges, my school is a lower teir and has a state supreme court judge as an instructor as well as instructors who serve on the state bar, state appeals court, and other important areas. Clearly they know their stuff.

[john4040]

Actually, no, I don't think most T3 or T4 schools have what St. Mary's has to offer.  Show me the "many" schools at which students are taught by Supreme Court Justices.

You just don't get it, do you?  These summer abroad programs are open to all U.S. law schools (basically any student who wants to and can pay tuition).  The fact that a school sponsors a particular program does not mean that students from other schools are prohibited from attending -- these same opportunities are available to non-St. Mary's students.

Examples:
Tulane Law School is pleased to announce that Associate Justice Stephen Breyer of the US Supreme Court will teach a course in the Tulane Law summer program in Cambridge, England. "Over 4,000 law students from approximately 140 U.S. law schools have attended our programs"  (Program is open to all law schools)

St. Mary’s program in Innsbruck - No SCOTUS Justice is attending this year... but they have in the past. (Instead, "Judge András Sajó of Europe’s highest court, the European Court of Human Rights... will join the faculty of the 2010 Institute on World Legal Problems as Distinguished Visiting Jurist.")  Nevertheless, the website says that "students from over 140 law schools have attended the program."  (Program is open to all law schools)

Pacific McGeorge -  For the twenty-first consecutive year, Anthony M. Kennedy, Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States, will co-teach a course on Fundamental Rights in Europe and the United States during the 2010 summer program in Salzburg.  All law school students in good standing as well as law graduates are allowed to attend. (http://www.mcgeorge.edu/documents/publications/Salzburg_Program_r2.pdf)  (Program is open to all law schools)

Secondly, most people aren't left with the option or privilege of attending a great T1 or T2 state school.  That's exactly why I came to St. Mary's.

Okay, I understand that you couldn't get into a higher ranked school... but just because you can't get into a school doesn't mean that you should go to any school that will take you.

Finally, the debt is worth it.  Why?  Because I say so.  I'm taking on that debt, as are plenty of other people in order to enjoy what St. Mary's has to offer.  And on another note, I came here because I want to practice law, not because I decided that I wanted to be miserable for three years in order to have a better income.  The debt is worth it to me so that I can practice law.

First, get a legal job.  If you do manage to get a legal job, I want you to come back after working for a few years and tell me how those monthly debt payments are working out for you.

You think three years of law school is miserable... imagine a life of working just to make ends meet - a life where you can never break free of your debt.  Once you find that you can't comfortably retire, then ask yourself whether attending St. Mary's was worth it.

I'm sorry that you don't know or appreciate St. Mary's.  I'm sorry that you had a bad experience at your school.  But some of us are proud of what we're involved with, so don't try to bring us down with you.

Sorry I injected reality into this thread.  If that brings you down, so be it.

[cooleylawstudent]

I say if his school really makes lousy lawyers then you should thanks him for attending it, making your schools grads look good by comparison and be able to thus charge higher rates to clients.   

As for getting in though, hell yeah he's better off at that school(or any for that matter) than none at all. What's worse mabey stuggling to pay the bills as a lawyer or for sure going into debt working in some broke factory that will be overseas in a few years anyways leaving you with no pension and no skills?