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Author Topic: For Those of You Asking "Should I Go to Law School"...  (Read 32318 times)

bigs5068

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Re: For Those of You Asking "Should I Go to Law School"...
« Reply #80 on: November 01, 2010, 02:10:01 PM »
Yea I should not say shocked that is to strong of a word.  My point was simply that finding work is hard. Finding a job simply sucks it always has and always will no matter what field you are trying to enter into. People always want to hire people with experience, but you need a job to get experience.  So getting your first job presents somewhat of a catch 22 and this does not only apply to the legal field.  In fact it applies to just about everything there is.  It does seem that law schools for how outrageously expensive they are could provide you with a year of clinical training for free after you pass the bar. Having on-campus clinics where professors are being paid to supervise you will give them the ability to really train you. This would allow students to get real experience after graduation instead of  being at a firm where they really do not have time to teach you. It seems the whole legal profession would benefit from this, but it does not look like it is going to happen anytime soon. That is the one reason Doctors/Nurses do get jobs when they finish everything they have to get practical experience before going out into the real world. Law school leaves you knowing the executive powers of the President, but not how to write motions, file things in court, and just the day to day of being a lawyer. That is the real issue.

nealric

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Re: For Those of You Asking "Should I Go to Law School"...
« Reply #81 on: November 13, 2010, 07:03:14 PM »
Quote
  but not how to write motions

I had plenty of instruction on writing motions in law school. The issue isn't knowing how to write the, it's knowing when they are appropriate and knowing what to put in them when you don't have a professor giving you an assignment.
Georgetown Law Graduate

Chief justice Earl Warren wasn't a stripper!
Now who's being naive?

bigs5068

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Re: For Those of You Asking "Should I Go to Law School"...
« Reply #82 on: November 13, 2010, 07:41:38 PM »
Yea the actual practical aspects of it is what should be taught. You can write motions using Matthew Bender or something, but how do you apply it practically. I am still only a 2L and I can only hope I will learn more along the way. However, as it stands if someone right this second had a problem I would not be able to solve it. I would know to file a complaint, but I am sure that is not the answer in every situation. Even if a complaint was the answer I would not know what to do after it was filed.I  imagine most law school graduates no matter what school they go to do not know how to do much of anything practical when they graduate. The only real way to learn anything is to actually be forced to do it. However, it seems most law students are scared to do anything real and the schools are to soft on students.

Maybe it is not like this at other schools, but I have professors that say if you did not do the reading just sign in. Or I don't want to call on to much blah. The only person being hurt by professors being overly nice is the student. If you can't get around to reading 20-30 pages as a first year student when your job is school and you cannot rationally discuss what you read in front of your peers then you do not even have a chance of being a halfway decent lawyer. I am constantly astonished at how soft & spoiled law students are. Seeing it in action I don't know why I am ever surprised reading things like JDunderground & other sites.

The bottom line is law school should be much harder than it is. It seems like the real reason there is unemployment and all this other stuff is that the school's are to soft on their students. They need to make you do real stuff and not just reading about the Executive Power. Students do not come out knowing what they need to know and it seems like after 3 years you should know the simple basic practical aspects. However, it does not seem like schools or the ABA are interested in requiring a more practical education.

marcus-aurelius

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Re: For Those of You Asking "Should I Go to Law School"...
« Reply #83 on: November 13, 2010, 08:08:46 PM »
Spoken like a true competitor and athelte bigs. As one who is not yet in law school, I cannot comment on it.  But I do feel one should always push past their comfort level if success is the goal

bigs5068

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Re: For Those of You Asking "Should I Go to Law School"...
« Reply #84 on: November 13, 2010, 09:47:31 PM »
Thanks. I was just in a study group with 3 other people who would not stop complaining about how hard the class we are in is. I wanted to kill somebody instead I went on a rant on this website. All I kept thinking about was if you stopped b***hing for 2 minutes and studied maybe it would not be that hard. They are cool people and they are probably 10x smarter than me, but good god stop whining. All I could think to myself was what if these people were in an actual law firm and someone wanted them to do something. Would they just tell them it sounds to difficult?  I don't know your background, but if you come from a family that made you do any kind of work in high school or college be able to control your emotions when you listen to completely spoiled & naive people complain about the most retarded things in the world. Instead of taking it out on them vent on this board  :)

In all seriousness I really do think the main reason for all the people bi***ing and moaning on JDunderground & other such sites is that law school is to easy. You should be required to do something real before you can become a lawyer. As it stands you can get a J.D. & pass the bar a standardized test and you somehow are deemed capable of dealing with real problems. The simple fact is the only way to know how to deal with real problems is by dealing with real problem. Unfortunately, the ABA and law schools do not seem to understand this. This results in people coming out completely unprepared for the REAL world.

marcus-aurelius

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Re: For Those of You Asking "Should I Go to Law School"...
« Reply #85 on: November 14, 2010, 07:29:47 AM »
I wonder if part of the problem is for mnay law students college was easy and thus they do not know how to work.  If not for working full time for several years, I may not either.  I can sleep through most of my classes and still maintain an A average.  My work ethic developed through actual work prevents me from doing so.  So those who have never really worked, may find work to not be for them in law school

bigs5068

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Re: For Those of You Asking "Should I Go to Law School"...
« Reply #86 on: November 16, 2010, 03:10:48 PM »
Maybe, I mean law school truly is not that difficult. I remember reading books etc about how hard it would be and I have been extremely underwhelmed. People will disagree with me on this I am sure, but literally if you show up to class everyday, do the readings, make a decent outline (there are a million different ways to do this, but whatever you need to do to go over what you learned.) You will get decent grades. Be a responsible human being and odds are everything will end up ok regarding your grades.

Instead a bunch of people try to take all these shortcuts. They buy supplements, listen to podcasts, etc and they say I never read the book or show up to class. Then they are baffled by the professor's exam, because the supplement the professor never assigned did not address some topic the professor covered extensively in class. People put in 100x more effort tin taking shortcuts han they would by just doing the basic simple task they are supposed to do. Read between 60-90 pages during the weekdays. It is far from impossible and I have done a lot harder things than that.

Getting a job you ask. How hard is that I was in suits all the time and people would always ask me how are you getting all these interviews? My simple answer I applied to jobs and they called me back. Not everyone in fact probably like 15% of the jobs I applied to, but it takes 10-15 minutes to write an acceptable cover letter. I applied to 400 jobs I think, which was quite easy to do when only having to read 60-90 pages a day.  I ask them if they applied or even signed up with LCS oh no we didn't get around to that yet. Again, all I can think is how how in god's name are you that lazy that you don't have time to just register with career services. It is in the building you can take 20 minutes out of your day when reading 60-90 pages. It is just the bare minimum and if you do that you will need to write a competent cover letter. Again, if you do that things will probably work out even if you go to a lowly tier 4.

That is probably so incoherently written it is beyond understanding, but I am just so astonished at how spoiled & soft law students are. That does not apply to everyone obviously, but a vast majority of them would probably succeed if they used common sense and took some accountability for themselves.

The reality is law school is to soft on people and the professors and administration is  to nice. This isnot going to help anyone in the long run. Yesterday for example our professor gives a list of people who will get called on the next class, which I think is to easy in the first place. However, one of the girls yesterday still did not get around to reading it. She was assigned a 4 page reading the book and just needed to have some comprehension of 4 freakin pages. She gets called on and says I did not read it. The professor gives a look of disappointment and moves on. I would have kicked her out of the class or literally docked her an entire grade or something.  That is just simply inexcusable unless some emergency happened, but she was at the 49ers game and she could have read before going or our class is at 3:00 with a horrible hangover I could competently understand 4 f***ing pages. None of that was done so all I can ask is what in god's name will she do if she is a lawyer? 

It is simply unbelievable to me. Those are extreme cases and a lot of people in law school are smart and hard working, but I can really see the type of people that join JDunderground etc. Law school is not unlike anything else do your s*** and this will require some work & sacrifice. As far as I know to succeed in anything it takes work & sacrifice, but law school does not even ask for that much. Well that is a nice and awesome incoherent rant, but I had to vent.

Hamilton

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Re: For Those of You Asking "Should I Go to Law School"...
« Reply #87 on: November 17, 2010, 12:17:52 PM »
Interesting article at ATL:  only 8% consider a school's job placement statistics the most important factor when considering a law school. 

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/11/even-if-you-told-law-prospective-students-the-truth-would-they-care/

bigs5068

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Re: For Those of You Asking "Should I Go to Law School"...
« Reply #88 on: November 17, 2010, 12:54:58 PM »
I completely agree with everything that article says. I do not think 90% of incoming law students have any idea what they are in for. The admissions requirements should be 100x more stringent than they are. They could be like medical & nursing schools and require prerequisite courses for an applicant to even be considered. They could also make some kind of hourly requirement to work in a law firm, court, or some legally related field before applying. Instead you can breeze through college with a 3.2 in Religious Studies and get about 70 out of 100 MC questions on a test you do not even need to study for and whollaa. You have sufficiently proven you are willing to put in 3 years of work and 100k for a field you have displayed no interest in whatsoever. 

The fact that U.S. News ranking is one of the top priorities is another thing that is in no way surprising. I myself was nearly tricked into moving to Michigan to attend a Tier 2 school opposed to a tier 4 in a place where I have a ton of connections and actually want to live. The rankings are really sad because they mislead so many students into thinking anybody would care that they go to the 74th opposed to the 111th best school. Particularly when considering the formula U.S. News uses makes almost no sense. I wish U.S. News could be sued, but they are just a private for profit-magazine giving their opinion and people are stupid enough to think it matters. I paid a $700 deposit, because I was one of these stupid people. Thankfully, I talked to 3 practicing  lawyers the day before I bought my plane ticket to Michigan who told me nobody really cares about tier 2 or tier 4 schools. If you want a job in San Francisco you should go to school in the Bay Area.  I am still astonished that I did not have the common sense to realize that months earlier, but it makes me feel better that 92% of people are just as dumb as me.

So bottom line is law school is not a guarantee and the number one thing any student should consider before committing 3 years & 100k is getting a job. You should probably get some kind of legal experience before applying, because 3 years & 100k is a big commitment. Considering how big the commitment is it would be wise to have some exposure to the legal field. Then go to school in the location you want to live in and get out as cheaply as possible. Take scholarship money unless it is an ELITE school. If the school's main claim to fame is that it had the 9th best international law program it is not worth 100k more to go. Harvard, Yale, Stanford, those types of school are worth the extra money. If you say the school's name and the average joe on the street gives a puzzled look it is not that impressive. Even if you go on to tell average Joe it is the 49th best school (according to the for-private and unregulated U.S News subjective opinion) and had the 39th best public interest program and 17th best international law program he will still scratch his head.  The majority of lawyers will probably do the same and I can only imagine they don't care if you went to the 63rd or 87th best school. They also probably have no idea who holds the title of 17th best international program and even if they did they could care less. 

MikePing

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Re: For Those of You Asking "Should I Go to Law School"...
« Reply #89 on: January 27, 2011, 01:45:02 PM »
Here is another link that is actually free and has a lot of the same information:
http://www.law-schoolcoach.com