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Author Topic: How do I get out of ED  (Read 4767 times)

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Re: How do I get out of ED
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2009, 02:26:41 PM »
You're probably screwed on Harvard (for this year), but you could use the Harvard acceptance to play hardball with Duke for a scholarship if they're not already giving you one. You could diplomatically tell them they either need to give you a really good scholarship or you just won't go to law school this year. Then, you either get a good deal at Duke or you get to sit out the year and reapply next year.

But hey, worst case, you end up at Duke. It's a good problem to have.

Do you think Duke would really give a scholarship to someone who signed a binding agreement and then decides to try to hold them over a barrel?  I would think that Duke would be more than willing to say have fun toiling around for the next year.

Frogvag

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Re: How do I get out of ED
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2009, 03:48:13 PM »
Just tell Duke your situation has changed and you don't want to go to law school anymore.  Then, accept Harvard's offer!  You would be crazy to turn down Harvard!

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Jamie Stringer

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Re: How do I get out of ED
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2009, 03:56:57 PM »

Biggest feminine hygiene product bag ever? 

Although you're in the running, I wouldn't claim the title just yet.
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Re: How do I get out of ED
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2009, 11:25:54 PM »
Note to poster -- your professional reputation in the legal community has already started forming. What do you want to be known for?

changethegame

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Re: How do I get out of ED
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2009, 06:45:45 AM »
I think some of you are being a bit presumptuous. A URM's chances for admission at any T-14 are just about the same across the board; either he's a good candidate or he's not...period.

Admissions is a much wilder game for URM's (especially African-Americans and Native-Americans/Indians).

Because "soft" factors are actually "hard" for them, it's much more difficult to predict which schools will want them, particularly when talking about top schools, b/c they intuitively place differenct weights on the intangibles.

At Duke and Harvard, for example, a URM's having overcome severe impoverishment might be worth 10-12 points on the LSAT,raising a 158 LSAT scorer to 168-170 (well within range for admission with $$$ at any top school), or a 163 to 173-175 (an automatic admit with $$$ at any school).

There's no real science to it, so i can see how a URM candidate might underestimate his chances of getting into Harvard. Besides, there are students every year who turn down Harvard to go to schools like Northwestern, Penn, Columbia, UVA, etc. Many of you may not want to believe this, but not everybody needs to drop "H-Bombs" for the rest of their lives to be or feel successful. 

If you're going to direct your post at me, then at least do it outright. 

Are you really saying that the URMs have equivalent stats, on average, across the T14?  Are you fk'in serious?  Do you really think that URMs at HYS have stats that are no different than a UVA or a Northwestern?  Get Real!!!


I can see someone applying to Duke and HLS regular decision and seriously doubting that he or she will get into HLS.  But to apply to Duke binding ED and have the qualifications to get into HLS is an action that is hard to comprehend.  This is one of the most misinformed actions I have seen to date.



You missed the entire point of my post. What I was saying was that URM admissions are much more difficult to predict because numbers have less weight, which everyone knows. And, yes, URM's at Penn (African-American and Indian) would have the same numbers across T-14 schools. I personally know of African Americans who had the stats to get into HYS but went to Columbia, Penn or Northwestern instead. This isn't odd at all, considering that there are so few of us in the field that recruiters will dig deeper into the talent pools and the rankings to find URM's.

These sorts of realities piss white applicants off, but they are REALITIES. Trust me, for some Black dude from Morehouse, Berkeley is as good as Yale or Harvard. And, I know for certain that the same Black dude with stats of 3.65/160 would have the same likelihood of getting into Harvard as he would Columbia or Virginia. Duke and Cornell might go a little easier on him because they are known to put even less weight on URM applicants' numbers than the other T-14's.

So, to answer your question..Hell Yes! OP should have known that if he was a good candidate for Duke, he also had a decent shot at Harvard. Harvard, Yale and Stanford take URM's with sub-160 LSAT's every year. And they take them with sub-3.8 GPA's, too. And yes, URM's can even get into Harvard with 3.6/159. "Misinformed"? I don't think so.

Another  after-effect of this is that a school like Illinois will reject a top URM assuming that he's going to a T-14, just because his numbers look better than the typical URM at Illinois. So a URM can be rejected by a sub-top-20 school but get scholarships to Duke and Michigan. This CAN happen to white students, too. But admissions is so much more of a numbers game. Ideally, every student should be treated in a more holistic fashion, like URM's are. But we know that's not what really happens. 


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Re: How do I get out of ED
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2009, 04:41:58 PM »
Either go to Duke this year, or wait and apply to schools next year. These are your only options.

And next time, don't apply to schools you would prefer while using a binding ED on a lesser school.

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Re: How do I get out of ED
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2009, 11:11:09 PM »
You're probably screwed on Harvard (for this year), but you could use the Harvard acceptance to play hardball with Duke for a scholarship if they're not already giving you one. You could diplomatically tell them they either need to give you a really good scholarship or you just won't go to law school this year. Then, you either get a good deal at Duke or you get to sit out the year and reapply next year.

But hey, worst case, you end up at Duke. It's a good problem to have.

Do you think Duke would really give a scholarship to someone who signed a binding agreement and then decides to try to hold them over a barrel?  I would think that Duke would be more than willing to say have fun toiling around for the next year.

They might, they might not. They might tell you that you're now no offered. But hell, if the OP knows they can get into the H and they don't mind waiting around a year, what's the harm?
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Re: How do I get out of ED
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2009, 11:35:49 PM »

Do you think Duke would really give a scholarship to someone who signed a binding agreement and then decides to try to hold them over a barrel?  I would think that Duke would be more than willing to say have fun toiling around for the next year.

Zero chance Duke will give a scholarship by waving an HLS acceptance in their face.  ZERO.  It is an absurd thing to do.  Some people on this site just give the most terrible advice that it boggles my mind and actually makes me angry!!!

Duke is far more likely to REVOKE your ED than to give you one cent of scholarship money if you do that, and not only that, they will probably tell other schools to blacklist your ass.


Why zero chance? Duke is < Harvard, they're aware of that fact, and schools give out scholarship money based on your ability to get into better schools. The ED factor is unique here, but I fail to see why that absolutely precludes the possibility of the OP shaking some cash out of Dook by leveraging the H acceptance. Sure OP might just end up sitting out a year, but if they're fine with that, it's no big deal.

As for the quality of my advice, aren't you still working on the LSAT? I've done the application process myself and I've seen more than a few people leverage acceptances at better schools into scholarships at lesser schools. Granted I've never seen it with an ED app, but I also don't know anyone that got accepted into somewhere on ED, so I really don't know if it would work or not. And besides, all I said was that the OP could try it, not that they should.

Lol at the mafioso outlook on law schools. You're not going to get blacklisted because you decided not to go to school for a year after asking for scholarship money. This is a belief born of the myth and fear propagated by 0Ls. OP might not get back into Duke if they break their ED, but they're not going to be blackballed either.
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Re: How do I get out of ED
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2009, 07:16:12 AM »

Do you think Duke would really give a scholarship to someone who signed a binding agreement and then decides to try to hold them over a barrel?  I would think that Duke would be more than willing to say have fun toiling around for the next year.

Zero chance Duke will give a scholarship by waving an HLS acceptance in their face.  ZERO.  It is an absurd thing to do.  Some people on this site just give the most terrible advice that it boggles my mind and actually makes me angry!!!

Duke is far more likely to REVOKE your ED than to give you one cent of scholarship money if you do that, and not only that, they will probably tell other schools to blacklist your ass.


Why zero chance? Duke is < Harvard, they're aware of that fact, and schools give out scholarship money based on your ability to get into better schools. The ED factor is unique here, but I fail to see why that absolutely precludes the possibility of the OP shaking some cash out of Dook by leveraging the H acceptance. Sure OP might just end up sitting out a year, but if they're fine with that, it's no big deal.

As for the quality of my advice, aren't you still working on the LSAT? I've done the application process myself and I've seen more than a few people leverage acceptances at better schools into scholarships at lesser schools. Granted I've never seen it with an ED app, but I also don't know anyone that got accepted into somewhere on ED, so I really don't know if it would work or not. And besides, all I said was that the OP could try it, not that they should.

Lol at the mafioso outlook on law schools. You're not going to get blacklisted because you decided not to go to school for a year after asking for scholarship money. This is a belief born of the myth and fear propagated by 0Ls. OP might not get back into Duke if they break their ED, but they're not going to be blackballed either.

Whether you have gone through the actual application process (once) does not in any way legitimize your advice or signify that you  are in a better position than me to offer advice.  Early Decision is binding.  It means that if you get in, you must immediately withdraw all other applications. It means that if you get in you have absolutely no opportunity to  accept an offer from another school.  Telling Duke that you will not go at all unless they give you scholarship money because you have a Harvard acceptance is ridiculous. While he won't be blacklisted per se, it is still possible that the admissions office shares this kind of behavior with other schools.  Schools do talk to each other.  If he were to take your advice and go to Duke waving that HLS acceptance in their face, and then he decides after all not to go to Duke after Duke immediately denies his request for scholarship money, there is a great chance that Duke admissions will be making some calls. This will not help OP in the following admissions cycle.


There was an applicant who posted on LSD a few years ago.  He posted significant identifying information on these boards.  Based off what he posted here, Texas Law believed that his app to their school contained misleading information in regards to his race/ethnicity.  Texas viewed his LSN and then contacted his other schools about what they felt might be an impropriety in the application.  The point is, I have no clue whether Duke would contact other schools or if this would be a reason for Duke to contact other schools - but schools do talk and share information.  Considering that one who signs an ED is required to immediately withdraw all applications from all schools, leveraging for money seems like a particularly immoral decision.

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Re: How do I get out of ED
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2009, 05:06:55 AM »

Do you think Duke would really give a scholarship to someone who signed a binding agreement and then decides to try to hold them over a barrel?  I would think that Duke would be more than willing to say have fun toiling around for the next year.

Zero chance Duke will give a scholarship by waving an HLS acceptance in their face.  ZERO.  It is an absurd thing to do.  Some people on this site just give the most terrible advice that it boggles my mind and actually makes me angry!!!

Duke is far more likely to REVOKE your ED than to give you one cent of scholarship money if you do that, and not only that, they will probably tell other schools to blacklist your ass.


Why zero chance? Duke is < Harvard, they're aware of that fact, and schools give out scholarship money based on your ability to get into better schools. The ED factor is unique here, but I fail to see why that absolutely precludes the possibility of the OP shaking some cash out of Dook by leveraging the H acceptance. Sure OP might just end up sitting out a year, but if they're fine with that, it's no big deal.

As for the quality of my advice, aren't you still working on the LSAT? I've done the application process myself and I've seen more than a few people leverage acceptances at better schools into scholarships at lesser schools. Granted I've never seen it with an ED app, but I also don't know anyone that got accepted into somewhere on ED, so I really don't know if it would work or not. And besides, all I said was that the OP could try it, not that they should.

Lol at the mafioso outlook on law schools. You're not going to get blacklisted because you decided not to go to school for a year after asking for scholarship money. This is a belief born of the myth and fear propagated by 0Ls. OP might not get back into Duke if they break their ED, but they're not going to be blackballed either.

Whether you have gone through the actual application process (once) does not in any way legitimize your advice or signify that you  are in a better position than me to offer advice.  Early Decision is binding.  It means that if you get in, you must immediately withdraw all other applications. It means that if you get in you have absolutely no opportunity to  accept an offer from another school.  Telling Duke that you will not go at all unless they give you scholarship money because you have a Harvard acceptance is ridiculous. While he won't be blacklisted per se, it is still possible that the admissions office shares this kind of behavior with other schools.  Schools do talk to each other.  If he were to take your advice and go to Duke waving that HLS acceptance in their face, and then he decides after all not to go to Duke after Duke immediately denies his request for scholarship money, there is a great chance that Duke admissions will be making some calls. This will not help OP in the following admissions cycle.


There was an applicant who posted on LSD a few years ago.  He posted significant identifying information on these boards.  Based off what he posted here, Texas Law believed that his app to their school contained misleading information in regards to his race/ethnicity.  Texas viewed his LSN and then contacted his other schools about what they felt might be an impropriety in the application.  The point is, I have no clue whether Duke would contact other schools or if this would be a reason for Duke to contact other schools - but schools do talk and share information.  Considering that one who signs an ED is required to immediately withdraw all applications from all schools, leveraging for money seems like a particularly immoral decision.

Misleading apps and bad behavior on ED are two different things. Misleading apps are a fraud likely committed against all of the schools someone applied to. bad ED behavior is more of a failure to perform an agreement with a particular school. I feel like schools would be less likely to report ED withdraws that effect only them, and other schools would be less likely to care. Both are admittedly bad behavior, but one is clearly worse than the other. Unless the OP is required to attend Duke and can no longer decide simply to not attend law school this year, they should be free to walk away from the ED for whatever reason as long as they don't go to school this year.

I'm not saying to leverage the acceptance so much as to leverage the ability to get accepted in the future. Like I said at first, OP is probably out of Harvard this year without question, but that doesn't mean they couldn't mention the ability to get into Harvard to Duke when asking for a scholarship.
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