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Author Topic: Should North African Arabs be considered URMs?  (Read 5592 times)

nitr0x99

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Should North African Arabs be considered URMs?
« on: December 19, 2009, 06:21:10 PM »
If other African Americans get URM status why don't North African Arabs (Egyptians, Libyans, Moroccans, etc).  Basically, it seems as if law schools are telling us that our skin is not dark enough to qualify for URM status

NYCFed

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Re: Should North African Arabs be considered URMs?
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2009, 11:15:08 PM »
Do you think North Africans and their descendants are particularly under represented in law schools?  Do you think South African whites should be treated as URM's?

Amel

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Re: Should North African Arabs be considered URMs?
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2009, 06:22:08 PM »
I am French/Northern African (from Algeria) but also black. Northern African does not equate to being Arab. If you have been to Morocco or Algeria, you would then know that we come in all shades,colors, complexion, etc. and are from various ethnic backgrounds ( Berbers, Tuareg, Cabiles). Let's face it Northern Africans are mixed no matter how much you look at it, it is a known fact. You can be white, caramel, brown, yellow, high yellow and everything in between. You should know this if you have been there.
One thing to bear in mind is that we are not Arabs either but Northern African ( huge distinction). Study your history, we were colonized and heavily influenced by Arabs and although we speak Arabic we ARE NOT Arabs. Now, I happen to be clearly a woman of color ( no doubt about it) thus I feel extremely comfortable applying as a URM, oh and with only 2% of Algerians in the US, I think I speak from experience when I say that we are truly underrepresented. 
Every man has two countries: His own and France

~Thomas Jefferson

legalized

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Re: Should North African Arabs be considered URMs?
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2010, 04:37:47 PM »
I am French/Northern African (from Algeria) but also black. Northern African does not equate to being Arab. If you have been to Morocco or Algeria, you would then know that we come in all shades,colors, complexion, etc. and are from various ethnic backgrounds ( Berbers, Tuareg, Cabiles). Let's face it Northern Africans are mixed no matter how much you look at it, it is a known fact. You can be white, caramel, brown, yellow, high yellow and everything in between. You should know this if you have been there.
One thing to bear in mind is that we are not Arabs either but Northern African ( huge distinction). Study your history, we were colonized and heavily influenced by Arabs and although we speak Arabic we ARE NOT Arabs. Now, I happen to be clearly a woman of color ( no doubt about it) thus I feel extremely comfortable applying as a URM, oh and with only 2% of Algerians in the US, I think I speak from experience when I say that we are truly underrepresented. 

yes but morocco and egypt ARE considered part of the arab world.  Like it or not, they are arabs. no matter the skin colour.

Although from the OP references not being dark enough to be considered URM, it should be obvious without all the hairsplitting that he is referring to the typical picture that comes to mind when we think of arabs, and that is skin that is very near white, or that some people call "olive" complexion.

Underrpresented means given the history and population size of the same group out in the U.S. community.  Not URMs on a worldwide scale.

Blacks of all nationalities/cultures, latinos/hispanics of all nationalities/cultures, native americans...these are the MAIN underrepresented minorities people are usually speaking of that have historically been PURPOSELY SHUT OUT of law school and legal justice on a whole.

People forget that URM status isn't just an umbrella to ease some people's way in for no reason.  This status acknowledges the serious error that left these groups out of the legal loop from education to justice for a long long time, on purpose.  Things done on purpose cannot be corrected by accident when they are systemic...human action has to be purposely directed at correcting it.

That is why we have social programs to assist those humans that are left in the lurch...because too often it is other humans that left them there, not natural selection like out in the natural world.

legalized

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Re: Should North African Arabs be considered URMs?
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2010, 04:39:47 PM »
And to the original post. I think given the tension and racial profiling from EVERYBODY against arabs of any country, including americans of arab descent, yes, they should get URM status.

But that is not up to us so we might as well accept what is.  It's a good part of a diversity statement I think but I don't know that arabs have HISTORICALLY had a hard time getting into law or getting justice served to them within the borders of the U.S. Not saying they have or haven't, just saying i don't know of it.

terrence107

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Re: Should North African Arabs be considered URMs?
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2010, 06:37:26 AM »
If someone's parents are from North Africa, can they claim URM status as an African American? ???

bigs5068

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Re: Should North African Arabs be considered URMs?
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2010, 11:48:31 PM »
They should I am sure the school will classify them as African American so you might as well get the benefit of being classified as A URM.

Below are the groups the ABA classifies: African American, American Indian, Mexican America, Puerto Rican, Hispanic. Below is straight from LSAC's ABA data. If you are from an African country they will classify you as that.  Unless you are a Caucasian from South Africa the school will manipulate their stats and say you are African American for their purposes. You might as well get the advantage of being a URM if you are coming from Africa.

African Amer. 12 2.8 20 4.7 29 3.5 3 12.0 13 4.4 32 3.7 17
Amer. Indian 2 0.5 0 0.0 1 0.1 1 4.0 0 0.0 2 0.2 0
Asian Amer. 53 12.4 68 15.8 119 14.3 2 8.0 42 14.2 121 14.1 47
Mex. Amer. 1 0.2 3 0.7 4 0.5 0 0.0 0 0.0 4 0.5 2
Puerto Rican 2 0.5 2 0.5 4 0.5 0 0.0 0 0.0 4 0.5 1
Hispanic 12 2.8 11 2.6 21 2.5 2 8.0 5 1.7 23 2.7 14
Total Minority 82 19.2 104 24.2 178 21.4 8 32.0 60 20.3 186 21.7 81
For. Nation. 9 2.1 19 4.4 27 3.2 1 4.0 11 3.7 28 3.3 9
Caucasian 335 78.6 307 71.4 626 75.3 16 64.0 224 75.9 642 75.0 196
Unknown 0 0.0 0 0.0 0 0.0 0 0.0 0 0.0 0 0.0 0
Total 426 49.8 430 50.2 831 97.1 25 2.9 295 34.5 856 286

MEMEMEME

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Re: Should North African Arabs be considered URMs?
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2011, 11:13:00 PM »
If it's true that North Africans don't get URM status, I am sure it isn't because they are "underrepresented" in law school. I don't buy that that's why anyone gets special privileges when they apply. It is just another affirmative action attempt and to be quite frank, North africans have not struggled in the U.S. as a whole in the U.S. in quite the very special way that other Africans have struggled and when they have immigrated here (in general), it is because they come from wealthy families and are able to afford immigrating to the U.S. It's the same with the Colombians and Mexicans. Colombians are generally wealthy when they come here and Mexicans are not. This is why it is much more favorable for someone to be a Mexican with the same stats as a Colombian. However, I think being Colombian might give you a bit of a boost over being "white" with the same stats...

legalized

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Re: Should North African Arabs be considered URMs?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2011, 09:33:06 AM »
If someone's parents are from North Africa, can they claim URM status as an African American? ???

North African countries have multiple races going on, not just white, not just black...often mixed.

I would say they have to use whatever race or race mix they reported themselves as on their immigration/student visa paperwork, period.  Not suddenly remembering you have some negro in you now that it can shave a few dollars off your tuition bill or add some grease to your law school app wheels.  The point of the URM is to bring it to the attention of the admissions committee "here is an applicant who is from a racial group whose percentage of the population in law school and the legal profession is severely less than their percentage of the population in the United States."

This means:

1. If North African countries represent .1% of the U.S. population, no one cares about increasing their enrollment if they represent .89% of the law school/legal population...cause they are pretty much properly reflected.

2. If a black male represents about 6% of the U.S. population (the other 6% being the black females to make a total of 12% blacks in the U.S. population), and they are only 1% of the law school/legal population...red alert, hello, something is wrong with that, so the powers that be will make the effort to fix it.  Keep in mind from the person is black no one cares where their blackness first entered the earth long as they are legal or will be legally in the country, cause they'll be counted on the next census if they're here for it...so this black male could be from the Caribbean or an African country (as a significant number of Ivy League black males are, which caused black American professors and others to change the complaint from not enough blacks to not enough AMERICAN blacks getting admitted), or a native son.

3. If a white male represents 33% of the US population (rough rounding, don't nitpick...and the other 33% is white females to represent 66% of the nation's total population being white)...and they represent 40% of the total law school/legal population (with maybe another 35% of the law school/legal population being white female for a total of 75% of the law being white)...um news flash don't need that many of them in there, they are oversaturating the market.

It's all about finding a representative balance as much as possible.  Because it was unnatural forces that created that imbalance in the first place.

Not a hard concept folks let's just deal with this and move on...

AND FOR THE RECORD the diversity statement allows non-upper class/middle class whites to showcase what they bring to the table as far as their viewpoint...they could be socio-economically diverse, they could have survived trauma such as abuse or the foster care system, they could have been an Olympic contender, they could have done any number of things that overcame some adversity.

Race is one factor, and the U.S. has a history of purposely screwing with people because of their race, so now the country does what it can to undo the barriers and EFFECTS of those barriers in present times.  Those whose forefathers got a distinct advantage from skin colour alone, are now overrepresented in most fields and the established networks (remember networking is the way to get jobs these days?) are skewed towards their population because of the past exclusion of those of other colours, so they didn't get IN much less to set up a network for this generation...

Find out what makes you different and bring it up on your diversity statement...URM category is obsessed over a lot by people who it doesn't even apply to...smh.

avarist

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Re: Should North African Arabs be considered URMs?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2012, 09:26:35 PM »
It is vey sad that such a situation exists where a few people are granted the URM status but a selected few are not. The topic if discussed will lead to religious arguments. It would be better if the current URM status is not allowed to African Americans or if it is granted to all Africans. Peace. Check her for details of my work.
How is it "sad"? You either are a URM or you are not.
Seems pretty open/shut.