What Test Should I Take To Get A Baseline Score

[ptoomey]

So far all I have done is look at a couple of sample LSAT questions, but I want to start studying and taking PTs.

I'd like to take a pratice test to see what I'd score if I went in cold. What do you think? Is that a good idea, or will I be using up a PT that I should save for later? I guess it's good to get a baseline, just to know if your progressing, but it's actually curiosity more than anything else at this point. I'm curious if I'll score a 130 or a 140 on my first try.

After seeing how crazy the Logic Games section is though, I'm not sure doing one of those sections now will give me any kind of idea of what I'll ultimately score there. I guess I should do that part anyway though, just so I can see how much I improve.

Anyway, at this point I have no idea where to get the PTs. Can you download them free from somewhere? Also, is there a particular test or tests that are best to take as a first crack at it?

One other question - have people found their first score to be a good indicator of their ultimate score?

Thanks.

[EarlCat]

Go ahead and set a baseline so that you can brag about how much you improved.

It doesn't matter which one you take, but preferably a more recent one (like #50+).
You can get a free one here.

[ptoomey]

I'm not looking for bragging rights, just curious whether it's possible to improve my score significantly. Based on what I've read about job prospects and school prestige, my law career will be cut very short if I score a 140 on my first test and significant improvement is a pipe dream. I think most people just starting out are wondering the same thing.

Thanks for the link.

[EarlCat]

I'm not looking for bragging rights,

You should be. 

just curious whether it's possible to improve my score significantly. Based on what I've read about job prospects and school prestige, my law career will be cut very short if I score a 140 on my first test and significant improvement is a pipe dream.

Why would you think significant improvement was a pipe dream?

[ptoomey]

Sorry, a little oversensitive in the AM - thought you were being sarcastic.

That's good news that it's possible to improve your score significantly.
It took me around a half hour to do just 2 sample logic games and I only got
around 60% of them right:-)

[EarlCat]

That's good news that it's possible to improve your score significantly.
It took me around a half hour to do just 2 sample logic games and I only got
around 60% of them right:-)

You can.  I made my living for several years making sure of it.  But it's not easy, and there's no shortcut.  Put in the time and effort and you can improve tremendously.  Try not to get discouraged early on...you gotta walk before you run.

[Jeffort]

Sorry, a little oversensitive in the AM - thought you were being sarcastic.

That's good news that it's possible to improve your score significantly.
It took me around a half hour to do just 2 sample logic games and I only got
around 60% of them right:-)

ptoomey, if you are really an actual student seeking admission to Law School and legitimately looking for quality LSAT test prep advice and instruction rather than being a deceptive shill from somewhere like say Atlas LSAT Test prep it would be helpful, since you keep posting vague contradictory stuff, if you would post accurate information about your study plan ideas, things you've done so far, materials you have and gone through or are considering getting, discussing prep ideas, and asking legitimate questions that a real student revving up to take the LSAT would ask, etc.

It is not even clear when you plan to take the LSAT from your posts and what materials you have been using. 

If you are being truthful and have worked two LSAT logic games you obviously have authentic materials to practice with and know where to get them from, which contradicts your statement that you don't know where to get authentic LSAT PT's to prep with. 

LSAC  http://www.lsac.org/LSAT/lsat-prep-materials.asp only provides 8 LG questions for free in that URL and also provides a free full test that EarlCat mentioned.  http://www.lsac.org/pdfs/SamplePTJune.pdf

So, if you are actually an honest student seeking LSAT prep in order to improve your score and gain admission to a quality Law School, getting 60% correct in 30 minutes working the first two full real LSAT logic games you have seen and attempted bodes well for your final score potential. 

Unfortunately, based on the content of your posts I doubt that you are not a shill nor are actually a legitimate student seeking to take the LSAT and gain admission to Law School.  My current opinion/belief is that you are somebody falsely posing as a student and posting as such in order to drive business to Atlas LSAT test prep (that you posted a link to) which has a web page filled with non LSAC authentic administered logic games manufactured from that company, which is the ultimate sin and biggest red flag of them all in terms of rating quality LSAT preparation services. 

Correct me if I'm wrong. 

If you are really a student seeking advice about how to improve your score and got suckered into LSAT prep from an organization that uses non authentic LSAT materials, ask questions and somebody will try to post quality advice for your situation for free.  Me, EarlCat, and others will do so.

If you are a hired shill, please disappear since this board is a no shill zone and that policy is enforced heavily. 

[EarlCat]

I don't think he's a shill.  1 post out of 20 mentions Atlas, and it doesn't follow the usual format:  "Hey, has anyone heard about XYZ company?  Their website is at [insert link].  I don't know anything about them, but I hear they use real LSAT questions and [lists all the wonderful things about XYZ company including score improvement, instructor qualifications, availability of online classes, etc.] but I'm skeptical.  Should I consider prepping with them?"

[ptoomey]

Hi Jeffort,

I can assure you,  I'm not a shill. Actually, I can't ASSURE you that I am not. I can only TELL you that I am not. The only reason I posted those links was because they were so different in level of difficulty, and I thought I might get some explanation of why that is, if I posted the links.

I don't blame you for being on the lookout for people doing that. I've found some great information since joining this forum, and I would hope that there's a minimum of that kind of activity on here.

In an effort to TRY to assure you, consider this:

-Even in the post where I included those links, I didn’t ask if anyone recommended those 
 materials.
-I haven't posted any questions about which materials to use, except when I asked where
 I could find prep tests.
-Sorry if my posts were vague. I thought they were excruciatingly specific and
 rambling:-)
-If my posts seem ambivalent, it’s because I am. I’m 43 years old with a boatload of kids.
 A law degree would allow me to do work that I already know I’m very interested in. I took a
 course in Estate Planning as part of a Certified Financial Planner certificate, and became
 interested in law school. As we all know, law school is no picnic. I’m trying to figure out
 if this is really something I can consider doing, and my score on the LSAT is going to be a
 major factor, because of a low GPA. My situation is anything but typical, so I’m kind
 of all over the place trying to figure this out, before I really hunker down and get serious
 about studying for the LSAT.

To answer some of your questions:

ptoomey, if you are really an actual student seeking admission to Law School and legitimately looking for quality LSAT test prep advice and instruction rather than being a deceptive shill from somewhere like say Atlas LSAT Test prep it would be helpful, since you keep posting vague contradictory stuff, if you would post accurate information about your study plan ideas, things you've done so far, materials you have and gone through or are considering getting, discussing prep ideas, and asking legitimate questions that a real student revving up to take the LSAT would ask, etc.

I don’t really have a plan yet, because I haven’t figured out if I'm definitely going to apply for law school. At this point, I’m still trying to figure out what a realistic LSAT score might be, how to get a baseline score, how possible it is to improve from that baseline, etc. That's why I've been asking questions in this forum specifically.
Maybe EarlCat can advise whether I should post my questions elsewhere. This seemed like the most logical place to post, but maybe I should ask those types of questions in one of the forums where people have already taken the LSAT. As far as what materials I've worked through - only the 3 sample questions at novapress, and 2 sample Logic Games at the atlas site. My next step is to go through the test that EarlCat pointed me to at the LSAC site.

Hopefully I've assured you. I've been getting a lot of great information on this forum and don't plan to disappear any time soon - unless my score on that baseline is a 130:-) If that happens, ptoomey will be back attending to the aforementioned boatload of kids.

[Jeffort]

Hi Jeffort,

I can assure you,  I'm not a shill. Actually, I can't ASSURE you that I am not. I can only TELL you that I am not. The only reason I posted those links was because they were so different in level of difficulty, and I thought I might get some explanation of why that is, if I posted the links.

I don't blame you for being on the lookout for people doing that. I've found some great information since joining this forum, and I would hope that there's a minimum of that kind of activity on here.

In an effort to TRY to assure you, consider this:

-Even in the post where I included those links, I didn’t ask if anyone recommended those 
 materials.
-I haven't posted any questions about which materials to use, except when I asked where
 I could find prep tests.
-Sorry if my posts were vague. I thought they were excruciatingly specific and
 rambling:-)
-If my posts seem ambivalent, it’s because I am. I’m 43 years old with a boatload of kids.
 A law degree would allow me to do work that I already know I’m very interested in. I took a
 course in Estate Planning as part of a Certified Financial Planner certificate, and became
 interested in law school. As we all know, law school is no picnic. I’m trying to figure out
 if this is really something I can consider doing, and my score on the LSAT is going to be a
 major factor, because of a low GPA. My situation is anything but typical, so I’m kind
 of all over the place trying to figure this out, before I really hunker down and get serious
 about studying for the LSAT.

To answer some of your questions:

ptoomey, if you are really an actual student seeking admission to Law School and legitimately looking for quality LSAT test prep advice and instruction rather than being a deceptive shill from somewhere like say Atlas LSAT Test prep it would be helpful, since you keep posting vague contradictory stuff, if you would post accurate information about your study plan ideas, things you've done so far, materials you have and gone through or are considering getting, discussing prep ideas, and asking legitimate questions that a real student revving up to take the LSAT would ask, etc.

I don’t really have a plan yet, because I haven’t figured out if I'm definitely going to apply for law school. At this point, I’m still trying to figure out what a realistic LSAT score might be, how to get a baseline score, how possible it is to improve from that baseline, etc. That's why I've been asking questions in this forum specifically.
Maybe EarlCat can advise whether I should post my questions elsewhere. This seemed like the most logical place to post, but maybe I should ask those types of questions in one of the forums where people have already taken the LSAT. As far as what materials I've worked through - only the 3 sample questions at novapress, and 2 sample Logic Games at the atlas site. My next step is to go through the test that EarlCat pointed me to at the LSAC site.

Hopefully I've assured you. I've been getting a lot of great information on this forum and don't plan to disappear any time soon - unless my score on that baseline is a 130:-) If that happens, ptoomey will be back attending to the aforementioned boatload of kids.

Hey ptoomey,

No worries.  Thanx for the detailed reply. 

Wow, raising several children and simultaneously trying to prep for the LSAT plus working on figuring out the ins and outs of the LS application process is certainly a lot to juggle at the same time.  Just prepping for the LSAT without children and without having other demanding responsibilities can be overwhelming.

I really hope, given the very limited prep you have done, that you are not planning on taking the December 2009 LSAT.  To achieve your maximum potential score on an administered LSAT requires many hours/days/weeks/for some many months of preparation, study, practice and review.  It's not a test that one can cram for at the last minute like is possible with most college exams. 

Some of the basics:  DO NOT study and practice with non authentic LSAT materials that did not appear on a previously administered LSAT.  I looked at the Atlas site and they offer many 'fake' LSAT questions/logic games that were not produced and administered by LSAC and therefore are not REAL LSAT materials. 

The lengthy development, pre-testing, and various other quality control procedures that are based on and controlled by a ton of complex psychometric factors LSAC employs for every question that appears on an administered test in order to ensure they administer a consistent standardized test every administration cannot be duplicated by others.  To say it simply, Friends don't let friends practice with fake LSAT materials.

There are about 60 or so authentic previously administered LSAT tests available for students to use for preparation, so there is no shortage of real materials to use and therefore no need to resort to using synthetic materials.   

Get more authentic LSAT test questions and study, practice and review with those and if you are going to self study rather than hire a tutor or take a class from a quality prep provider, make sure to get quality prep books that only use real LSAT questions.  The Nova press book does not qualify as a quality LSAT self study resource and most of the LSAT prep books you can find on the shelf at book stores are terrible in terms of properly preparing you for the exam.  I've read/reviewed them all over the years.  Feel free to ask questions about anything with your prep process and I'll try to answer them as will EarlCat and possibly others.  I've been teaching and tutoring students how to substantially improve their score for about 9 years now with great success. 

Sorry to have come down hard on you at first.