I wouldn't choose Toledo again

[FalconJimmy]

First, thanks for sharing your perspective.

I started when the school was Tier 2 and have seen it descend into the 4th tier first hand (mainly because I am taking my sweet time graduating).

Now that just sucks.  I know these rankings are, to a degree, rather arbitrary and they probably signify less than people think, other than giving a person just a general ballpark of where a school is at, but I graduated from a school (not law) that was 47th in the country when I started and I think it's around #80, now.  That's really demoralizing.  It doesn't just hurt your immediate job prospects, but it hurts it down the road, too.  For better or worse, most people will not have any dealings with most schools, other than what they see in the rankings and they'll base their entire opinions on them.

1. The quality of student attending now is much worse than when I started. I can see it in class discussion and class ranking.

That is stunning.  For some reason, I guess I presumed that the caliber of law student, nation-wide would be vastly improved during this economic downturn since so many talented people are having difficulty finding jobs and are electing to ride out the storm by getting another degree.

Do you feel the grading curve is similarly impacted?  Is it that much easier to place higher in class rank or get one of the better grades on a test?  ( I see you already mentioned class rank, but is this what you meant?  Easier to get higher up in the rank?)

2. The previous dean, Doug Ray, was not very good. He left last year.

3. The interim administrators have not been very good either.

I get that impression. I  guess the good news is that a hotshot dean could turn the boat around just as quickly as the last captain was sinking it.

4. The Career Services Office is terrible.

Yeah, I don't particularly hold that against them.  I hear that from people attending all strata of law schools these days.

My recommendation is that unless you want to stick around Toledo metro and practice law, go somewhere else. You would be much better off attending school in an area you wouldn't mind living in.

Thanks.  That's sound advice.  Personally, I want to practice in NW Ohio upon graduation and actually intend to start my own practice as soon as possible.    Toledo can get me there, but Cooley might be able to, too, and with the 75% scholarship, they're less than half the cost of Toledo.  I don't think Toledo will offer me any scholarship money.

[TTToledoXXXX]

"Now that just sucks.  I know these rankings are, to a degree, rather arbitrary and they probably signify less than people think, other than giving a person just a general ballpark of where a school is at, but I graduated from a school (not law) that was 47th in the country when I started and I think it's around #80, now.  That's really demoralizing.  It doesn't just hurt your immediate job prospects, but it hurts it down the road, too.  For better or worse, most people will not have any dealings with most schools, other than what they see in the rankings and they'll base their entire opinions on them."

It is pretty demoralizing because I never intended to practice up here. I had an opportunity to go to a 4th tier school in my preferred area of practice, and if I had known Toledo was going to be 4th tier when I sat for the bar, I would have just stayed put.

"That is stunning.  For some reason, I guess I presumed that the caliber of law student, nation-wide would be vastly improved during this economic downturn since so many talented people are having difficulty finding jobs and are electing to ride out the storm by getting another degree.

Do you feel the grading curve is similarly impacted?  Is it that much easier to place higher in class rank or get one of the better grades on a test?  ( I see you already mentioned class rank, but is this what you meant?  Easier to get higher up in the rank?)"

Well, I have been dialing it in the last year and a half and my GPA has improved substantially...and that isn't because I am super brilliant or anything.

"I get that impression. I  guess the good news is that a hotshot dean could turn the boat around just as quickly as the last captain was sinking it."

Not so sure. I think a large part of it is US News deciding to count part time stats in their rankings. They need to cut back on student enrollment substantially, but they probably won't because the State is broke and UT Law subsidizes other departments at UT.

"Yeah, I don't particularly hold that against them.  I hear that from people attending all strata of law schools these days."

While true, I will still complain about them. They suck!

"Thanks.  That's sound advice.  Personally, I want to practice in NW Ohio upon graduation and actually intend to start my own practice as soon as possible.    Toledo can get me there, but Cooley might be able to, too, and with the 75% scholarship, they're less than half the cost of Toledo.  I don't think Toledo will offer me any scholarship money."

If you want to practice in NW Ohio, then even though I gripe about them, Toledo is probably your best bet. Your regional options probably suck worse than Toledo. Cooley is a sweatshop, and I would avoid that place if I could. They set their curve ridiculously low and have very high attrition rates.

[FalconJimmy]

"Now that just sucks.  I know these rankings are, to a degree, rather arbitrary and they probably signify less than people think, other than It is pretty demoralizing because I never intended to practice up here. I had an opportunity to go to a 4th tier school in my preferred area of practice, and if I had known Toledo was going to be 4th tier when I sat for the bar, I would have just stayed put.

Ouch!  Now that stings.

If you want to practice in NW Ohio, then even though I gripe about them, Toledo is probably your best bet. Your regional options probably suck worse than Toledo. Cooley is a sweatshop, and I would avoid that place if I could. They set their curve ridiculously low and have very high attrition rates.

Yeah, I am a little astounded at the vehemence that people express against Cooley.  And this is coming from other 4th tier law grads. 

Thanks for the advice.  Personally, my goal is to open a PI practice right in Toledo.  So, it sounds like UT is a good way to get there.