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Author Topic: Law school only for elites??  (Read 4681 times)

LooneyBin

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Re: Law school only for elites??
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2009, 02:09:12 PM »
I really don't think that law school is only for the "elites". I mean there are over 200 law schools in the US and, arguably, only 14 "elite" ones. That obviously means the majority of law students in the US don't go to the elite law schools. I wouldn't worry too much about the snobbish posters who only wish they were at these "elite" law schools. Most of the people who graduate from the 185 or so other law schools can certainly develop great careers as well. Last year, I heard plenty of these "nay" sayers tell me not to go to a tier 2/3 law school but, I didn't listen to them. I eventually transferred to a solid tier 2 and I am very happy.
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xxspykex

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Re: Law school only for elites??
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2009, 08:13:17 PM »
I really don't think that law school is only for the "elites". I mean there are over 200 law schools in the US and, arguably, only 14 "elite" ones. That obviously means the majority of law students in the US don't go to the elite law schools. I wouldn't worry too much about the snobbish posters who only wish they were at these "elite" law schools. Most of the people who graduate from the 185 or so other law schools can certainly develop great careers as well. Last year, I heard plenty of these "nay" sayers tell me not to go to a tier 2/3 law school but, I didn't listen to them. I eventually transferred to a solid tier 2 and I am very happy.

The real issue is the outrageous costs of tuition nowadays. You essentially have to make biglaw or spend the next 20-30 years making really bad money while struggling to repay your student loans. Even TTTs nowadays cost $40K /year to attend. Yes, there are scholarships but the cost of living, books, insurance, etc for 3 years will run you around $50K. So that means to come out of law school with only moderate debt that means you need to have a full ride. For most people getting a full ride means attending a lower ranked schools (usually t2 or well below). The issue with those schools is that they almost always have GPA stipulations, which can be pretty brutal considering a lot of them curve on a B- or C+ curve. So then you are faced with the decision to attend a low ranked school with a very good likelihood your full ride will get yanked and you値l have given up attending a better school just to pay full tuition at a dump for 2 more years or to pay full price at a t14 or better (which still isn稚 much of a reassurance that you値l make biglaw and be able to repay your debt any time soon). LRAP and public service is also a possibility, but those jobs are pretty scarce nowadays as well (possibly more so then biglaw).

MCB

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Re: Law school only for elites??
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2009, 12:14:20 PM »
I really don't think that law school is only for the "elites". I mean there are over 200 law schools in the US and, arguably, only 14 "elite" ones. That obviously means the majority of law students in the US don't go to the elite law schools.

True.  But just because someone isn't necessarily an "elite" within the legal community, doesn't mean they aren't "elite" within the context of society at large.  What percentage of the general population are actually successful attorneys/professionals?  So it all depends on your perspective.

And I'm not even framing "elite" as a necessarily positive thing.  I go to a Tier 2 law school and went to a solid public undergrad.  Many people I meet every day are very impressed and to them, I'm "elite".  Whatever, who cares?  It's all just semantics anyway.
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Ninja1

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Re: Law school only for elites??
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2009, 12:44:35 AM »
I really don't think that law school is only for the "elites". I mean there are over 200 law schools in the US and, arguably, only 14 "elite" ones. That obviously means the majority of law students in the US don't go to the elite law schools.

True.  But just because someone isn't necessarily an "elite" within the legal community, doesn't mean they aren't "elite" within the context of society at large.  What percentage of the general population are actually successful attorneys/professionals?  So it all depends on your perspective.

And I'm not even framing "elite" as a necessarily positive thing.  I go to a Tier 2 law school and went to a solid public undergrad.  Many people I meet every day are very impressed and to them, I'm "elite".  Whatever, who cares?  It's all just semantics anyway.

This is right. Given that only ~3% of the population has a ph.d. or professional degree, it's pretty easy to say that everyone that finishes law school is "elite".

In my own case, out of the people I went to high school with, I only know of two other people that went to law school (Wyoming and Thomas Jefferson...) and neither one graduated with me (class of about 300). Out of undergrad I was one of only 8 people to go to law school (best of the bunch besides me went to Oklahoma, most went to *&^% schools). And in terms of law school, I go to one of the big three in Florida, so I can even say I'm "elite" compared to 75% (a guess) of the law school students in FL, and nationally based on rank. But still, I attend a school that's in the 50s, making me remarkably vanilla in terms of the overall legal profession.

So yeah, "elite" is all in the eyes of the beholder. I'm destined for government or mid/small law, but compared to the vast majority of my countrymen, I'm elite. Crazy world...
I'mma stay bumpin' till I bump my head on my tomb.

Ninja1

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Re: Law school only for elites??
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2009, 12:49:28 AM »
I really don't think that law school is only for the "elites". I mean there are over 200 law schools in the US and, arguably, only 14 "elite" ones. That obviously means the majority of law students in the US don't go to the elite law schools. I wouldn't worry too much about the snobbish posters who only wish they were at these "elite" law schools. Most of the people who graduate from the 185 or so other law schools can certainly develop great careers as well. Last year, I heard plenty of these "nay" sayers tell me not to go to a tier 2/3 law school but, I didn't listen to them. I eventually transferred to a solid tier 2 and I am very happy.

The real issue is the outrageous costs of tuition nowadays. You essentially have to make biglaw or spend the next 20-30 years making really bad money while struggling to repay your student loans. Even TTTs nowadays cost $40K /year to attend. Yes, there are scholarships but the cost of living, books, insurance, etc for 3 years will run you around $50K. So that means to come out of law school with only moderate debt that means you need to have a full ride. For most people getting a full ride means attending a lower ranked schools (usually t2 or well below). The issue with those schools is that they almost always have GPA stipulations, which can be pretty brutal considering a lot of them curve on a B- or C+ curve. So then you are faced with the decision to attend a low ranked school with a very good likelihood your full ride will get yanked and you値l have given up attending a better school just to pay full tuition at a dump for 2 more years or to pay full price at a t14 or better (which still isn稚 much of a reassurance that you値l make biglaw and be able to repay your debt any time soon). LRAP and public service is also a possibility, but those jobs are pretty scarce nowadays as well (possibly more so then biglaw).

Why anyone attends most T3/4s and pays sticker is beyond me.

And public service stuff will NEVER be more scarce than big law, good economy or bad. You can find a stupid gubment job somewhere if you look, even coming out of the T4. The same cannot be said for big law.
I'mma stay bumpin' till I bump my head on my tomb.

xxspykex

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Re: Law school only for elites??
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2009, 03:43:17 AM »
I really don't think that law school is only for the "elites". I mean there are over 200 law schools in the US and, arguably, only 14 "elite" ones. That obviously means the majority of law students in the US don't go to the elite law schools. I wouldn't worry too much about the snobbish posters who only wish they were at these "elite" law schools. Most of the people who graduate from the 185 or so other law schools can certainly develop great careers as well. Last year, I heard plenty of these "nay" sayers tell me not to go to a tier 2/3 law school but, I didn't listen to them. I eventually transferred to a solid tier 2 and I am very happy.

The real issue is the outrageous costs of tuition nowadays. You essentially have to make biglaw or spend the next 20-30 years making really bad money while struggling to repay your student loans. Even TTTs nowadays cost $40K /year to attend. Yes, there are scholarships but the cost of living, books, insurance, etc for 3 years will run you around $50K. So that means to come out of law school with only moderate debt that means you need to have a full ride. For most people getting a full ride means attending a lower ranked schools (usually t2 or well below). The issue with those schools is that they almost always have GPA stipulations, which can be pretty brutal considering a lot of them curve on a B- or C+ curve. So then you are faced with the decision to attend a low ranked school with a very good likelihood your full ride will get yanked and you値l have given up attending a better school just to pay full tuition at a dump for 2 more years or to pay full price at a t14 or better (which still isn稚 much of a reassurance that you値l make biglaw and be able to repay your debt any time soon). LRAP and public service is also a possibility, but those jobs are pretty scarce nowadays as well (possibly more so then biglaw).

Why anyone attends most T3/4s and pays sticker is beyond me.

And public service stuff will NEVER be more scarce than big law, good economy or bad. You can find a stupid gubment job somewhere if you look, even coming out of the T4. The same cannot be said for big law.

Even paying sticker at CCN is a pretty big risk nowadays with close to half of their 2Ls empty handed this year. Public service is getting pretty scarce. There are so many people, even at CCN, that went to law school to do public interest, built up a resume that really shows that, and yet got locked out this year. I find it hard to believe t4 students are getting jobs that CCN students aren't. Pretty much all public service has serious hiring freezes this year making it tough to get these jobs that weren't really all that tough to get before.

Ninja1

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Re: Law school only for elites??
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2009, 04:07:21 AM »
I really don't think that law school is only for the "elites". I mean there are over 200 law schools in the US and, arguably, only 14 "elite" ones. That obviously means the majority of law students in the US don't go to the elite law schools. I wouldn't worry too much about the snobbish posters who only wish they were at these "elite" law schools. Most of the people who graduate from the 185 or so other law schools can certainly develop great careers as well. Last year, I heard plenty of these "nay" sayers tell me not to go to a tier 2/3 law school but, I didn't listen to them. I eventually transferred to a solid tier 2 and I am very happy.

The real issue is the outrageous costs of tuition nowadays. You essentially have to make biglaw or spend the next 20-30 years making really bad money while struggling to repay your student loans. Even TTTs nowadays cost $40K /year to attend. Yes, there are scholarships but the cost of living, books, insurance, etc for 3 years will run you around $50K. So that means to come out of law school with only moderate debt that means you need to have a full ride. For most people getting a full ride means attending a lower ranked schools (usually t2 or well below). The issue with those schools is that they almost always have GPA stipulations, which can be pretty brutal considering a lot of them curve on a B- or C+ curve. So then you are faced with the decision to attend a low ranked school with a very good likelihood your full ride will get yanked and you値l have given up attending a better school just to pay full tuition at a dump for 2 more years or to pay full price at a t14 or better (which still isn稚 much of a reassurance that you値l make biglaw and be able to repay your debt any time soon). LRAP and public service is also a possibility, but those jobs are pretty scarce nowadays as well (possibly more so then biglaw).

Why anyone attends most T3/4s and pays sticker is beyond me.

And public service stuff will NEVER be more scarce than big law, good economy or bad. You can find a stupid gubment job somewhere if you look, even coming out of the T4. The same cannot be said for big law.

Even paying sticker at CCN is a pretty big risk nowadays with close to half of their 2Ls empty handed this year. Public service is getting pretty scarce. There are so many people, even at CCN, that went to law school to do public interest, built up a resume that really shows that, and yet got locked out this year. I find it hard to believe t4 students are getting jobs that CCN students aren't. Pretty much all public service has serious hiring freezes this year making it tough to get these jobs that weren't really all that tough to get before.

I agree that times are tough in a lot of places right now, but consider that a lot of CCN types aren't going to be looking all over the country for work either. My statement is based solely on my belief that you can find a job somewhere doing public interest if you look, you might just have to travel to North Dakota or something to do it. I know flunkies at schools a lot worse than CCN (Low T2s and a T3) that managed to find paying public interest work last summer, but they were also willing to travel to another part of their states or other states for it.

Plus, long term, this can't keep up. I'd still be ok with taking my chances on a CCN degree that might take a few years to pay off. I mean, that's what I'm doing now and my degree isn't going to be anything near CCN. Guess we'll just have to wait a few years to see how this whole mess ends up...
I'mma stay bumpin' till I bump my head on my tomb.

xxspykex

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Re: Law school only for elites??
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2009, 04:57:44 PM »
I really don't think that law school is only for the "elites". I mean there are over 200 law schools in the US and, arguably, only 14 "elite" ones. That obviously means the majority of law students in the US don't go to the elite law schools. I wouldn't worry too much about the snobbish posters who only wish they were at these "elite" law schools. Most of the people who graduate from the 185 or so other law schools can certainly develop great careers as well. Last year, I heard plenty of these "nay" sayers tell me not to go to a tier 2/3 law school but, I didn't listen to them. I eventually transferred to a solid tier 2 and I am very happy.

The real issue is the outrageous costs of tuition nowadays. You essentially have to make biglaw or spend the next 20-30 years making really bad money while struggling to repay your student loans. Even TTTs nowadays cost $40K /year to attend. Yes, there are scholarships but the cost of living, books, insurance, etc for 3 years will run you around $50K. So that means to come out of law school with only moderate debt that means you need to have a full ride. For most people getting a full ride means attending a lower ranked schools (usually t2 or well below). The issue with those schools is that they almost always have GPA stipulations, which can be pretty brutal considering a lot of them curve on a B- or C+ curve. So then you are faced with the decision to attend a low ranked school with a very good likelihood your full ride will get yanked and you値l have given up attending a better school just to pay full tuition at a dump for 2 more years or to pay full price at a t14 or better (which still isn稚 much of a reassurance that you値l make biglaw and be able to repay your debt any time soon). LRAP and public service is also a possibility, but those jobs are pretty scarce nowadays as well (possibly more so then biglaw).

Why anyone attends most T3/4s and pays sticker is beyond me.

And public service stuff will NEVER be more scarce than big law, good economy or bad. You can find a stupid gubment job somewhere if you look, even coming out of the T4. The same cannot be said for big law.

Even paying sticker at CCN is a pretty big risk nowadays with close to half of their 2Ls empty handed this year. Public service is getting pretty scarce. There are so many people, even at CCN, that went to law school to do public interest, built up a resume that really shows that, and yet got locked out this year. I find it hard to believe t4 students are getting jobs that CCN students aren't. Pretty much all public service has serious hiring freezes this year making it tough to get these jobs that weren't really all that tough to get before.

I agree that times are tough in a lot of places right now, but consider that a lot of CCN types aren't going to be looking all over the country for work either. My statement is based solely on my belief that you can find a job somewhere doing public interest if you look, you might just have to travel to North Dakota or something to do it. I know flunkies at schools a lot worse than CCN (Low T2s and a T3) that managed to find paying public interest work last summer, but they were also willing to travel to another part of their states or other states for it.

Plus, long term, this can't keep up. I'd still be ok with taking my chances on a CCN degree that might take a few years to pay off. I mean, that's what I'm doing now and my degree isn't going to be anything near CCN. Guess we'll just have to wait a few years to see how this whole mess ends up...

Last summer was a whole other ball game. There were anywhere from 30-50% more summer associateships last year (and presumably a lot more public interest jobs available as well), which is still pretty bad considering they were down around 30% from 2007 last year. No t14s really took a really hard hit last year (well, until all the current 3Ls got deferred, no offered or other bull), it was really mostly schools outside the t14 that took a harder blow. This year pretty much changed everything.

Trivium

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Re: Law school only for elites??
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2009, 12:03:50 PM »
I was under the impression that JAG is just as competitive as BigLaw...

xxspykex

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Re: Law school only for elites??
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2009, 05:48:20 PM »
I was under the impression that JAG is just as competitive as BigLaw...

It got even more competitive now that they have loan forgiveness according to the lady who came here for OCI (I have no idea why I signed up for that OCI slot).

EDIT- I didn't mean more competitive then biglaw, just more competitive then in the past.