Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: What's your plan if you don't do well your first year?  (Read 4780 times)

fllaw

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: What's your plan if you don't do well your first year?
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2010, 10:37:55 AM »
Beware of Crushing Debt

I am a "non-trad" student with a good job and am going part-time. I will have NO debt upon graduation because going to a state TTT school with low tuition makes that so. Even if I graduate at the absolute bottom of my class I still graduate, still get a JD and don't have to worry about a job, cause I already have one. This profile is not typical; however, you folks need to face the reality of the market, which is not going to get any better for many years.

Be very careful about taking on massive debt with the dream of six figure salaries. Not going to happen for most. If you are not at HYS then maybe never. Make sure you know why you are going to law school. If its for money only, you will be disappointed. For me, it is something I wanted to do for a VERY long time and just got around to it. If it yields a fun "retirement job" cool, if not, I learned how to write my own will, cool.

I cannot overemphasize the crushing load debt will put on your young life. Be sure you know what you are doing. You might want to read this article:

The Next Bubble: Law School Tuition


http://abovethelaw.com/2010/04/the-next-bubble-law-school-tuition/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+abovethelaw+%28Above+the+Law%29

the white rabbit

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 362
    • View Profile
Re: What's your plan if you don't do well your first year?
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2010, 11:45:13 AM »
This post is not encouraging to many people entering law school.  I think that is a negative thing to think about.  I, unlike many others, am not going to law school to make a lot of money, so being in the 50th percentile will not destroy me.  If I honestly give it my all and wind up with that percentile, so be it!  I will be happy that I made through the 1st year.  I think that is the best attitude to have, though I will do everything in my power to do well.

It's not thinking negative to plan for the worst, even as you hope for (and aim for) the best. 

Also, plenty of people are not going to law school to make a lot of money, but are simply forced to when they realize how much they have to make in order to service the debt they accrued to finance law school.

Finally, it's not necessarily the case that being at the median will allow you to find a decently paid job, even if you're not in it for money.  There's a big gap in terms of entry-level middle-income law jobs.  Things are either high-pay or low pay, in general.
Mood: Tired but cheerful.  :)

the white rabbit

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 362
    • View Profile
Re: What's your plan if you don't do well your first year?
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2010, 11:48:14 AM »
I've been externing for awhile now and everytime I talk to other firms about recruiting they admitt that grades only matter for the first job, then after that its all performance based. They literally will turn someone away if they walk into the interview talking about what T their school was and their GPA. The idea is "who gives a flyingfuck, you've been practicing what are you cold cut results from that? You could be an online grad was bounced on and off of academic probation his whole time in school if you take cases that cowards wont take and get a few solid wins, you'll end up with more pay at the next gig then they will.

This may be true for many, if not most lawyer positions (and I'm not saying that it is, just saying it may be the case).  However, for certain jobs people will still care where you went to school and how well you did (though it will matter less the further out you are from school).  Big firms will still care, as will highly selective government agencies.  I think less so for public interest positions.
Mood: Tired but cheerful.  :)

cooleylawstudent

  • Guest
Re: What's your plan if you don't do well your first year?
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2010, 02:13:33 PM »
So if you are still passing you plan to quit? Are you one of those guys who stops the 2 mile run one lap into it since he dosn't have the guts to sprint into the front or passout puking and pooping himself to death in the process? I hate those pussies.

I don't think this is a "negative" thing to ask.  She is just asking us to consider the possibility that we won't all be brilliant at at law school, which you have to admit, is true. 

If I am literally in the very bottom of my class then I plan to cut my losses and drop out.  On the other hand, I don't plan to be too hard on myself if I am not in the tippy top of the class.  I do think it is important to manage your expectations.

cvtheis

  • Guest
Re: What's your plan if you don't do well your first year?
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2010, 02:43:29 PM »
My situation exactly, stayed in my well-paying career after passing the bar 2 years ago, and thank God I did not jump into this field..  Job market is horrible, pay is not that great - especially if you take on a crushing debt to get the JD. 

Beware of Crushing Debt

I am a "non-trad" student with a good job and am going part-time. I will have NO debt upon graduation because going to a state TTT school with low tuition makes that so. Even if I graduate at the absolute bottom of my class I still graduate, still get a JD and don't have to worry about a job, cause I already have one. This profile is not typical; however, you folks need to face the reality of the market, which is not going to get any better for many years.

Be very careful about taking on massive debt with the dream of six figure salaries. Not going to happen for most. If you are not at HYS then maybe never. Make sure you know why you are going to law school. If its for money only, you will be disappointed. For me, it is something I wanted to do for a VERY long time and just got around to it. If it yields a fun "retirement job" cool, if not, I learned how to write my own will, cool.

I cannot overemphasize the crushing load debt will put on your young life. Be sure you know what you are doing. You might want to read this article:

The Next Bubble: Law School Tuition


http://abovethelaw.com/2010/04/the-next-bubble-law-school-tuition/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+abovethelaw+%28Above+the+Law%29


cooleylawstudent

  • Guest
Re: What's your plan if you don't do well your first year?
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2010, 03:12:04 PM »
what alternative would you suggest?

My situation exactly, stayed in my well-paying career after passing the bar 2 years ago, and thank God I did not jump into this field..  Job market is horrible, pay is not that great - especially if you take on a crushing debt to get the JD. 

Beware of Crushing Debt

I am a "non-trad" student with a good job and am going part-time. I will have NO debt upon graduation because going to a state TTT school with low tuition makes that so. Even if I graduate at the absolute bottom of my class I still graduate, still get a JD and don't have to worry about a job, cause I already have one. This profile is not typical; however, you folks need to face the reality of the market, which is not going to get any better for many years.

Be very careful about taking on massive debt with the dream of six figure salaries. Not going to happen for most. If you are not at HYS then maybe never. Make sure you know why you are going to law school. If its for money only, you will be disappointed. For me, it is something I wanted to do for a VERY long time and just got around to it. If it yields a fun "retirement job" cool, if not, I learned how to write my own will, cool.

I cannot overemphasize the crushing load debt will put on your young life. Be sure you know what you are doing. You might want to read this article:

The Next Bubble: Law School Tuition


http://abovethelaw.com/2010/04/the-next-bubble-law-school-tuition/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+abovethelaw+%28Above+the+Law%29


sonofapickle

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 142
    • View Profile
Re: What's your plan if you don't do well your first year?
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2010, 05:52:52 PM »
I am doing what I consider, the best options, and minimizing risk.

In any case, I am doing what I consider to be the route to less worry when I do actually go to law school. If I am in the 50th percentile? Oh well, I have experience in finance and all the necessary components to land a 6 figure salary straight out of college, but I am going to the marines when I am through with college. I need a J.D. though because I'd rather have knowledge of the law instead of having lawyers circle-jerk me into major debt, not to mention, it just adds to my resume.

fllaw

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: What's your plan if you don't do well your first year?
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2010, 07:03:02 PM »
My situation exactly, stayed in my well-paying career after passing the bar 2 years ago, and thank God I did not jump into this field..  Job market is horrible, pay is not that great - especially if you take on a crushing debt to get the JD. 

Yes, I know other non-trads who are happy they did not quit their day jobs to go full time. The problem many young folks have is a lack of experience in debt management and unrealistic expectations. I know us old guys are often chided for offering "back in the day" advice. However, debt can and will ruin you life. I am not quite as fanatical as Dave Ramsey about debt, but this is serious. If you are a recent college grad with little real world experience in a tight job market then taking on $150K in debt is, frankly, insane.

One book I recommend to people caught up in the latest fad is:

Extraordinary Popular Delusions and The Madness of Crowds
by Charles Mackay

Quote
Why do otherwise intelligent individuals form seething masses of idiocy when they engage in collective action? Why do financially sensible people jump lemming-like into hare-brained speculative frenzies--only to jump broker-like out of windows when their fantasies dissolve? We may think that the Great Crash of 1929, junk bonds of the '80s, and over-valued high-tech stocks of the '90s are peculiarly 20th century aberrations, but Mackay's classic--first published in 1841--shows that the madness and confusion of crowds knows no limits, and has no temporal bounds. These are extraordinarily illuminating,and, unfortunately, entertaining tales of chicanery, greed and naivete. Essential reading for any student of human nature or the transmission of ideas.

In fact, cases such as Tulipomania in 1624--when Tulip bulbs traded at a higher price than gold--suggest the existence of what I would dub "Mackay's Law of Mass Action:" when it comes to the effect of social behavior on the intelligence of individuals, 1+1 is often less than 2, and sometimes considerably less than 0.

One might add taking on absurd levels of debt to go to law school to the above list.

cvtheis

  • Guest
Re: What's your plan if you don't do well your first year?
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2010, 08:13:33 PM »
Smart move - your initial postings on the board sounded like you were dead set on going to a T14 out of the gate.  I think there is a lot to be said about going into the military out of college - it brings a level of maturity and gravitas that takes those of us who did not go int o the military years (decades) to develop - if ever.  If you have the grades and means, the military will only help you be a bigger success.

I am doing what I consider, the best options, and minimizing risk.

In any case, I am doing what I consider to be the route to less worry when I do actually go to law school. If I am in the 50th percentile? Oh well, I have experience in finance and all the necessary components to land a 6 figure salary straight out of college, but I am going to the marines when I am through with college. I need a J.D. though because I'd rather have knowledge of the law instead of having lawyers circle-jerk me into major debt, not to mention, it just adds to my resume.

Haynes7

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 43
    • View Profile
Re: What's your plan if you don't do well your first year?
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2010, 02:36:04 AM »
Calm down now Thelo.  My loss is your gain right?  I wouldn't complain so much about other people failing. 

All I am saying is that I am not going to stick with law school if I am miserable there and show no aptitude for law.  You should be thanking me because thanks to my self judgement the world may be spared a terrible idiot lawyer.  I'm sure you are smart and will be brilliant at law school but not all of us assume the best.  I am sorry that you "hate those ******"  but wouldn't it be ironic if you end up failing out of law school?  I have this weird feeling that you will.  Life has a way of doing that... 

So if you are still passing you plan to quit? Are you one of those guys who stops the 2 mile run one lap into it since he dosn't have the guts to sprint into the front or passout puking and pooping himself to death in the process? I hate those pussies.

I don't think this is a "negative" thing to ask.  She is just asking us to consider the possibility that we won't all be brilliant at at law school, which you have to admit, is true. 

If I am literally in the very bottom of my class then I plan to cut my losses and drop out.  On the other hand, I don't plan to be too hard on myself if I am not in the tippy top of the class.  I do think it is important to manage your expectations.