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Author Topic: Cuz I'm Curious  (Read 3121 times)

IlliniBoy

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Re: Cuz I'm Curious
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2009, 10:34:49 AM »
So, the short version = if you want to be a real lawyer you need to go to a T5, or do above median at a T14. Otherwise you're a glorified paralegal?

I'm not going to take issue with that suggestion, but will ask yet another question: exactly how do they (the law school collective) attract 40,000 new matriculants (or more) each year?

It depends how you define "real lawyer". If real lawyer = Biglaw, then you need to be even better than that, at least right now- pretty much HYS, or median or above T6, or top 25% of so MVPB, or top 10% the rest of the T14, or top 5 (not percent, but people) at other schools. But there are a lot of very good jobs outside of Biglaw- government jobs are hard to get as well, but not quite so hard to get. Beyond that, there will be people who "make it" in law, but it's a crapshoot, and the odds are against it.

As for why there are so many law students- it's probably a good thing, because there's a lot of repetitive and time consuming legal tasks, so lots of lawyers keep the costs lower than they would be.  But lots of people delude themselves into thinking they're going to make 120k+ straight out of law school. Unless you're T14, don't count on it.

big - fat - box

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Re: Cuz I'm Curious
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2009, 11:03:40 AM »
Think about all the people who didn't or aren't going to get biglaw or something similar (i.e. large regional firm) at a t14. Then think about all the people who've been laid off or graduated with no offer or an offer that evaporated. Add the deferred biglaw associates to the mix. Now, this is your competition for any decent job, especially state and federal goverment jobs and public interest jobs - any job that qualifies for LRAP.

NeverTrustKlingons

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Re: Cuz I'm Curious
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2009, 01:56:06 PM »
Good news:

Firms still want a diversity of schools represented, so if you've done well at a reasonably well-ranked school you are fine.  The kids who are screwed are those who have average grades at a great school, who in any other economy would have a great selection of jobs.

As for T3/T4, my prediction is employed rates will be way off and many will be shutting their doors in a few years.  We can't take this many lawyers (we've known that for a while), and now reality is hitting hard.  I mean seriously, JAG Corps is competitive this year.
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tacojohn

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Re: Cuz I'm Curious
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2009, 12:14:18 PM »
Good news:

Firms still want a diversity of schools represented, so if you've done well at a reasonably well-ranked school you are fine.  The kids who are screwed are those who have average grades at a great school, who in any other economy would have a great selection of jobs.

As for T3/T4, my prediction is employed rates will be way off and many will be shutting their doors in a few years.  We can't take this many lawyers (we've known that for a while), and now reality is hitting hard.  I mean seriously, JAG Corps is competitive this year.

This is dead on. There's just too many lawyers and too many law students. As those schools shut their doors, hopefully it sends the message that law school is not for people who just need to kill time for three years. It's for learning legal skills, although that assumes schools start teaching more of those skills.

xxspykex

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Re: Cuz I'm Curious
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2009, 03:37:39 PM »
So, the short version = if you want to be a real lawyer you need to go to a T5, or do above median at a T14. Otherwise you're a glorified paralegal?

I'm not going to take issue with that suggestion, but will ask yet another question: exactly how do they (the law school collective) attract 40,000 new matriculants (or more) each year?

There are plenty of people in the t5 that are unhappy, so I don't think going to a better school will necessarily make things any better. This is the worst the legal economy has been since the 1970s and what was biglaw in 2007 is probably never going to be around anymore.

My Prediction:
Yale students in general are fine because so many of them do clerkships, and a TON do SCOTUS clerkships. Harvard will do clerkships and take up basically all the jobs that are out there biglaw. Stanford will come in and swoop what's left and also clerk.

Everyone else- completely screwed. Even clerkships are going to be really tough to crack now because everyone is going to want to do them, including students that traditionally might have wanted to just go work biglaw straight out of law school and not do a clerkship at all.

Ninja1

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Re: Cuz I'm Curious
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2009, 07:26:25 PM »
Lol at the recent mental retardation in this thread.

Firms don't give a *&^% about "diversity of schools", they give a *&^% about good attorneys.

*&^% school aren't going anywhere until the ABA starts unaccrediting them. Everyone at those schools already knows how screwed they are, they're just working on the hope of being one of the top 5 people. The schools don't give a damn what their placement rates are as long as they keep filling up their seats. ITE or not, the only things that will get rid of the T4 are either the ABA/DOE or poor attendance.

Life will be just fine for people outside of HYS. Most T1/2 people and people at select T3s will continue to do well. Believe it or not, there are more than ~1,000 available entry level legal jobs each year.
I'mma stay bumpin' till I bump my head on my tomb.

JeNeSaisLaw

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Re: Cuz I'm Curious
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2009, 09:54:39 PM »
A "TON" do SCOTUS clerkships? Haha. Now that's funny.

As far as firms caring about a diversity of schools, I think it's true. But a diversity of good schools. I don't think we'll see firms going to new schools. But I do think we're going to see them continue shopping at the schools they already did. A few fringe schools may get cut firm-by-firm. But if a firm has 10 slots, and usually fills it with 6 from big school X and 2 from small schools Y and Z, you're probably going to see X lose out, all else equal.
LSN
Vanderbilt Class of 2011

Ninja1

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Re: Cuz I'm Curious
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2009, 10:10:11 PM »
A "TON" do SCOTUS clerkships? Haha. Now that's funny.

As far as firms caring about a diversity of schools, I think it's true. But a diversity of good schools. I don't think we'll see firms going to new schools. But I do think we're going to see them continue shopping at the schools they already did. A few fringe schools may get cut firm-by-firm. But if a firm has 10 slots, and usually fills it with 6 from big school X and 2 from small schools Y and Z, you're probably going to see X lose out, all else equal.

Word.
I'mma stay bumpin' till I bump my head on my tomb.

Alchemy Prep

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Re: Cuz I'm Curious
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2009, 05:57:34 PM »
This year is going to be the toughest in a while.  Bad grades, as mentioned above, will make it even harder.  However, there are a few things to do if you are in the bottom half/thord of your class.

1) Make yourself stand out.  If you want a firm job, make sure you have done your specific rsearch on the firm with which you are interviewing.  Most students don't spend the time.

2) Ask insightful quesitons.  For example, make sure you remember who you are speaking with. If interviwing with a partner, don't ask about work flow, associate relations, associate/partner relations or anythign like that.  Ask about pland for growth in the future.  Ask about how a recent partner/group acquisition will affect the firm moving forward.  Asking insightful questions will make you stand out.

3) Take a risk.  Like I tell people at lower ranked schools, only a small percentage of screening interviews will turn into call-backs.  And for the most part, the call-backs will go to those with higher grades unless you take a chance and grab the interview by the horns.  Direct it, show initiative and a presence, and ultimately, make sure the interviewer remembers you for something you say.

Best,

Kris
www.alchemyprep.com