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Author Topic: Exilcest LSD: Where The Rubber Meets The Road  (Read 12896 times)

Thistle

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Re: Exilcest LSD: Where The Rubber Meets The Road
« Reply #60 on: September 04, 2009, 07:47:50 PM »
oh and btw.....i still have a load of fuckery. tom foolishness, and shenanigans left to accomplish.

after 25 years with someone, i am learning how to live alone, and seeing if i like it.  so far its ok, i guess, but i'm still sleeping with the lights on.

I also like to think to think I have some shenanigans left to experience.

The relationship thing is pretty intense. I can't say I relate, but I think we can all understand the pain and uncertainty that must go along with a situation like that. Don't feel bad about leaving the lights on, and leave them on for as long as you want. Try to take a little comfort in the fact that the sun is going to come up tomorrow, no matter what.



thank you
non ex transverso sed deorsum


JD

Miss P

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Re: Exilcest LSD: Where The Rubber Meets The Road
« Reply #61 on: September 05, 2009, 02:48:33 AM »
Yeah, one of the social paradigms of online socializing and making friends on public web pages that is very different from making and having friends/acquaintances strictly in person is the anonymity issue. 

It's not like in person conversations you have with people out in public places or where ever are recorded and archived for others to hear later in a place where you have no control of who is privy to the conversation like it is with public web interactions. 

To deal with that I try to operate by a simple rule of thumb.  Don't say/post things or behave with/treat others online in ways that you would not with people in person, whether they are strangers or not. 

I think a big part of why many people, that may IRL be cool friendly people, sometimes get mean and nasty and treat others badly or behave in weird ways online in ways they would not behave with others in person is because you can to some extent hide behind an anonymous or semi anonymous pseudonym and operate under the assumption that people wont know who you are and that there will be no personal consequences for being bad or whatever. 

The common assumption of being completely anonymous and immune from consequences of ones online behavior sometimes brings out the worst in people and some people take that assumption as free license to be a total a-hole on discussion boards and other online places.  The assumption is mainly false anyway.  Pretty much nobody that socializes/social networks is completely anon on the web.

Basically, people need to realize that online communication is not an 'Anything Goes' environment, there can be consequences for bad online behavior, and people should treat others online with the same common courtesy & respect they would with others in person. 


I heartily agree.
That's cool how you referenced a case.

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Scentless Apprentice

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Re: Exilcest LSD: Where The Rubber Meets The Road
« Reply #62 on: September 05, 2009, 04:16:59 AM »
Oh Miss P, I'm shocked!  ;)

No, seriously, I agree with some things .Chuck said, and disagree with others.

I had made the comment that my view of social communication on the internet has slightly been changed. I really think that my discussions with you (Miss P) in threads and in PM's helped make that change.

Let me give you one example where I think anonymity helped me write something online that I wouldnt normally say in person. To me, this doesnt make me an a-hole, or someone who's "taking advantage" of anonymity.

I made this RETARDED observation, and I was just free-flowing: from my mind, straight to the keyboard when I wrote this (from page 1 of this thread): "I remember thinking about love and marriage and such when I was younger...maybe like 10 or 11. You know, thinking normal stuff..like one day I will probably be married, etc. Now that I'm older..I now know how much the tongue is involved. Back then..I had no idea."

Now, this is obviously a silly comment. But, you know what? I think it's true. I also think it's funny. And, if I was out socially, or I was on a date with multiple couples..or if I knew other people on this board knew my true identity..I probably wouldnt have typed it. I would have censored myself because of what others may have thought. I don't think this is an uncommon thing. We are walking contradictions. Many people say one thing, and actually think something else.

Have you ever said something nice to a friend just to make them feel better? Many people do this all the time, and it's considered "nice." I think there are flaws in this behavior. For some reason I'm thinking of Michael Jackson. How many people do you think said to Michael, "dude, Michael..you look seriously screwed UP, your face is completely screwed up..you look like an alien. And with these allegations..you should run for the hills for a while, you're practically a laughing stock. In your current state you are nothing less than creepy, etc."

Nobody said that. If anybody tried to make a comment to him, it was probably completely watered down. If there was an anonymous board where people could make comments to Michael Jackson, things probably would get pretty blunt and to the point. Things would get said that people THINK but don't have the guts to SAY. I don't think is an uncommon phenomena.

So, ultimately, this makes me disagree with this comment from .Chuck's post: "Don't say/post things or behave with/treat others online in ways that you would not with people in person, whether they are strangers or not."

I think that leads to a boring messageboard. I made comments in Exile that were considered quite rude by some users. I was being honest when I said that I thought certain posts were boring. I would be a liar if I said otherwise. Now, one thing I've learned, thanks to you Miss P, as well as .Chuck and Matthies, is that sometimes when you see something that bothers you on the board..and you're blowing it up in your head into some big deal..just relax, and take it for what it really is.

I am a true believe that people commonly think things in their minds that they don't want to share with others, even their closest loved ones.

I agree with certain parts of what .Chuck & Miss P think. I do think you should not be an a-hole. I do think you should not stalk people online through a messageboard and harass them.

Let's say you have a friend who is overweight. Seriously overweight. You socialize with them a lot..and you notice that they always eat Mcdonalds, or Pizza Hut, ice cream, whatever. They're always complaining how they can't meet a guy or a girl, blah blah, woe is me, I'm so overweight.

It's likely a friend might be supportive, might suggest a different diet plan, exercise plan, etc. Or just even say 'hey, I'm here for you, friend.'

Now, if they were allowed to post their advice on an anonymous messageboard..it might be more like "Why don't you start by not eating fast food like 3 times a day? Why don't you stop eating pizza? Have you ever considered actually exercising?"

Miss P, this reminds me of that post where I strongly disagree over something you told another poster. I think you know what I'm talking about. It involved censorship. To me, the other person was expressing this bluntness that I'm trying to describe.

Sometime blunt talk like this, that is perceived as having no consequences because of its anonymity, can actually be helpful. Sometimes people need blunt honesty, and it doesnt always happen in "real life."

I'm not sure if anything I've written has made sense. I respect the fact that some of you feel otherwise. I wrote it all the way straight through, and it was a total stream of consciousness.

Miss P, you havent been around these parts in a while. I hope you come by Exilcest more often. 


 
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Miss P

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Re: Exilcest LSD: Where The Rubber Meets The Road
« Reply #63 on: September 05, 2009, 07:32:17 PM »
Oh Miss P, I'm shocked!  ;)

No, seriously, I agree with some things .Chuck said, and disagree with others.

I had made the comment that my view of social communication on the internet has slightly been changed. I really think that my discussions with you (Miss P) in threads and in PM's helped make that change.

Let me give you one example where I think anonymity helped me write something online that I wouldnt normally say in person. To me, this doesnt make me an a-hole, or someone who's "taking advantage" of anonymity.

I made this RETARDED observation, and I was just free-flowing: from my mind, straight to the keyboard when I wrote this (from page 1 of this thread): "I remember thinking about love and marriage and such when I was younger...maybe like 10 or 11. You know, thinking normal stuff..like one day I will probably be married, etc. Now that I'm older..I now know how much the tongue is involved. Back then..I had no idea."

Now, this is obviously a silly comment. But, you know what? I think it's true. I also think it's funny. And, if I was out socially, or I was on a date with multiple couples..or if I knew other people on this board knew my true identity..I probably wouldnt have typed it. I would have censored myself because of what others may have thought. I don't think this is an uncommon thing. We are walking contradictions. Many people say one thing, and actually think something else.

Have you ever said something nice to a friend just to make them feel better? Many people do this all the time, and it's considered "nice." I think there are flaws in this behavior. For some reason I'm thinking of Michael Jackson. How many people do you think said to Michael, "dude, Michael..you look seriously screwed UP, your face is completely screwed up..you look like an alien. And with these allegations..you should run for the hills for a while, you're practically a laughing stock. In your current state you are nothing less than creepy, etc."

Nobody said that. If anybody tried to make a comment to him, it was probably completely watered down. If there was an anonymous board where people could make comments to Michael Jackson, things probably would get pretty blunt and to the point. Things would get said that people THINK but don't have the guts to SAY. I don't think is an uncommon phenomena.

So, ultimately, this makes me disagree with this comment from .Chuck's post: "Don't say/post things or behave with/treat others online in ways that you would not with people in person, whether they are strangers or not."

I think that leads to a boring messageboard. I made comments in Exile that were considered quite rude by some users. I was being honest when I said that I thought certain posts were boring. I would be a liar if I said otherwise. Now, one thing I've learned, thanks to you Miss P, as well as .Chuck and Matthies, is that sometimes when you see something that bothers you on the board..and you're blowing it up in your head into some big deal..just relax, and take it for what it really is.

I am a true believe that people commonly think things in their minds that they don't want to share with others, even their closest loved ones.

I agree with certain parts of what .Chuck & Miss P think. I do think you should not be an a-hole. I do think you should not stalk people online through a messageboard and harass them.

Let's say you have a friend who is overweight. Seriously overweight. You socialize with them a lot..and you notice that they always eat Mcdonalds, or Pizza Hut, ice cream, whatever. They're always complaining how they can't meet a guy or a girl, blah blah, woe is me, I'm so overweight.

It's likely a friend might be supportive, might suggest a different diet plan, exercise plan, etc. Or just even say 'hey, I'm here for you, friend.'

Now, if they were allowed to post their advice on an anonymous messageboard..it might be more like "Why don't you start by not eating fast food like 3 times a day? Why don't you stop eating pizza? Have you ever considered actually exercising?"

Miss P, this reminds me of that post where I strongly disagree over something you told another poster. I think you know what I'm talking about. It involved censorship. To me, the other person was expressing this bluntness that I'm trying to describe.

Sometime blunt talk like this, that is perceived as having no consequences because of its anonymity, can actually be helpful. Sometimes people need blunt honesty, and it doesnt always happen in "real life."

I'm not sure if anything I've written has made sense. I respect the fact that some of you feel otherwise. I wrote it all the way straight through, and it was a total stream of consciousness.

Miss P, you havent been around these parts in a while. I hope you come by Exilcest more often. 


 

Perhaps you'll be surprised, but I basically agree with this as well.  I hadn't considered that "how you treat other people in an online forum" is much bigger than whether you are kind or unkind.  You're definitely right that the pseudonymity of the internet makes some things easier to say and we should take advantage of that for good, e.g., for breaking bad news or for offering honest advice that would be difficult to give in person or to a close friend.  One particularly cool feature of online communication that helps in this regard is not pseudonymity but the fact that people generally read the message board in private spaces where they can get angry/cry/process bad information without having to respond immediately or account to others for their reaction.   

I still think that the best rule of thumb here is a golden rule: is this the kind of thing that I would like to know in the long-term, even if it would make me uncomfortable at first?  If someone had constructive criticism about my job search, for instance, I might feel an initial "@#!* you," but in the end I would appreciate it, especially if it were good advice. I would not, however, appreciate someone I really didn't know telling me that I was boring unless I asked and wanted an honest opinion about it.  (For the record, I'm not asking.)

I also think it's a good idea, when you are discussing a tough issue, to take some care in doing so.  This is one of the reasons that I thought a couple of flippant remarks in a conversation about one poster's mental health were inappropriate: they weren't serious and they weren't made in an effort to help or educate someone.  In fact, the people involved were doing the opposite of trying to help the other poster; they were, in fact, making fun of him behind his back -- at least inasmuch as any conversation in a public forum can be behind someone's back.  Moreover, the conversation could have made a casual reader who suffered from the same condition feel ashamed or frustrated by the unfair stereotyping (people who suffer from, say, Tourette's are not all violent jerks who lash out at people and scream and curse for no reason).  It just didn't seem right to me.

I also disagree with your characterization of this incident as "involving censorship."  I made my comment, to a poster I consider a friend, in the same spirit of direct honesty that you seem to champion elsewhere.  She then chose to delete her post.  That was her decision, and she made it, apparently, because she agreed with what I said.  I didn't have the power to delete her comments, and I didn't suggest that the mods do so.  I just told her what I thought and it changed her mind or made her look at things in a different way.

I still don't understand how you distinguish this situation from the situations you described in your post, where people feel empowered to offer tough criticism because they are operating under pseudonyms.  Why is it better for someone on a message board to comment on your weight or your eating habits than it is for her to comment on something she knows about more directly, the content or tone of your posts?  It seems to me that both are fair game, depending on how you do it, but, if anything, commenting about someone's posts seems more appropriate.

In any case, if you really believe that the poster you were shittalking may have the illness mentioned and that it would be a good idea for him to check it out, you could approach him about it by personal message -- directing important information to him in a private setting so that he could think about it without unnecessary embarrassment.  This is not something you'd generally do with a friend because of the potential awkwardness, but it might be a helpful thing to do for a not-quite-stranger from a message board.  As you suggested in your post, it's neat that we have opportunities like these because of our pseudonymity and other features of the message board.  Nonetheless, they carry with them some responsibility, too.  You should tell people things you think they need to hear only out of a spirit of kindness and with the appropriate gravity, not because doing so is good for a couple of yuks or because it makes you feel better about yourself.
That's cool how you referenced a case.

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Matthies

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Re: Exilcest LSD: Where The Rubber Meets The Road
« Reply #64 on: September 06, 2009, 09:41:45 AM »
Whe I was a kid my mom told me not to syat something to someone if I would not admit saying it to someone esle. I've sued that on the internet as well. It would be pretty easy to figure out in rear life who I am, I don't hide it much. So I only type what I would stand by in person, the good, the bad, and the ugly, if I write it I'll admit to it in person as well.
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

Scentless Apprentice

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Re: Exilcest LSD: Where The Rubber Meets The Road
« Reply #65 on: September 07, 2009, 09:50:49 PM »
Hi everyone!

I really want to reply to some of the recent messages, most specifically Miss P's (briefly, and not in an antagonistic way at all), but I have not had the time to give Exilcest the attention it deserves.

I look forward to being in touch soon.

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zippyandzap

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Re: Exilcest LSD: Where The Rubber Meets The Road
« Reply #66 on: September 07, 2009, 10:46:43 PM »
Hello everyone

Scentless Apprentice

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Re: Exilcest LSD: Where The Rubber Meets The Road
« Reply #67 on: September 08, 2009, 10:29:03 PM »
Hey whats up, Zippy. And Zap.

I find myself on an island in the middle of the ocean. It's pretty weird so far. There are locals..and there are tourists. Quite a dichotomy. Makes me think of Jamaica Kincaid. I feel like less of a tourist since I have a family member that lives here, whose house I'm staying at..but..I'm still a tourist. They can spot me pretty easily.

Oh well, not my fault. I'll have another shot of Crowne Reserve and follow it with a Heineken, once for Jamaica Kincaid, and another one for Exilcest.

Who else puts this kind of care into a thread?

It was an odd flight just knowing that I was landing on such a small strip of land..it just made it seem different. I've flown all over the 48..and never had a flight like this. Newlywed couples (thats what it seemed like) and geriatrics made up the bulk of the passengers. Maybe I need to get out more.

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Re: Exilcest LSD: Where The Rubber Meets The Road
« Reply #68 on: September 08, 2009, 10:41:03 PM »
Hey whats up, Zippy. And Zap.

I find myself on an island in the middle of the ocean. It's pretty weird so far. There are locals..and there are tourists. Quite a dichotomy. Makes me think of Jamaica Kincaid. I feel like less of a tourist since I have a family member that lives here, whose house I'm staying at..but..I'm still a tourist. They can spot me pretty easily.

Oh well, not my fault. I'll have another shot of Crowne Reserve and follow it with a Heineken, once for Jamaica Kincaid, and another one for Exilcest.

Who else puts this kind of care into a thread?

It was an odd flight just knowing that I was landing on such a small strip of land..it just made it seem different. I've flown all over the 48..and never had a flight like this. Newlywed couples (thats what it seemed like) and geriatrics made up the bulk of the passengers. Maybe I need to get out more.




Scentless Apprentice

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Re: Exilcest LSD: Where The Rubber Meets The Road
« Reply #69 on: September 10, 2009, 07:37:35 AM »
Thank you, .Chuck.

I've never had an interest in having a blog - I think this is as far as I can go. I like the fact that people can chime in just as easily as I can..makes it seem less pretentious.

So..on the island tonight, out on the "town." One of my sisters friends works on the island. She's a scientist..like a f-ucking weird physicist or something, I really couldnt get out of her exactly what she does. She's from Ukraine. We were with a large group or 12 or so..at a bar. She doesnt drink, and definitely seemed out of place. I felt out of place too, so I figured I'd talked to her.

I thought of Exilcest a couple times when talking to her. At one point, I asked her if she knew how old my sister was. She said no. I said...well, do you want me to tell you? She was like no, no..that's not right. I said, well, I know she wouldnt mind, and wouldnt mind even if you yourself asked her. She told me that many women in different parts of the weird feel that this is an offensive question. I agreed with her. AT THE SAME TIME in my mind I was thinking "yeah, and thats F-UCKING RETARDED." I said "it's interesting how we seem to stay the same person inside, yet our physical body keeps aging." She agreed..but I guess she couldnt put the two together in order to get over tradition.

Another thing. We had a good conversation going for like an hour..we were sitting apart from the main group. She was fascinating..she told me she likes to stop every once in a while on her way to work and "make pictures of animals with my camera." She sounded like Borat. I thought that was awesome. She told me about all the countries she's been to because of her job..she started off in Ukraine..then went to Spain..then China..then Chile (of all places), and now on this island.

I told her that she lives a very intersting life, and asked her how many people from Ukraine have traveled like her that she knew of from her group of friends or school or whatever. She said not that many. I was blunt with her..I said you're an intersting person, you speak 5 languages, you move around from country to country..I said youre very international, but you are also a conservative person because you don't drink, you stick to yourself, you stay away from guys, etc. She said "yes, but I still have my secrets." SHE SAID THAT!!! It was like an alarm going off in my mind..I said yes, I too have secrets. I said, don't you think if we were to talk about our secrets, that we would have a very intersting conversation? I dont remember how she responded..it certainly wasnt agreeable..and then I said..it's interesitng how I have secrets..and you have secrets..and yet we can't talk about them for some reason. Yet, those are probably the most interesting things we have to offer each other.

All the other stuff we talked about was normal..I don't think she would feel awkward telling anyone about her work as a scientist or traveling around the world..but it's the secrets that are interesting. It's the secrets that make her who she is. Same with me. But we don't want to talk about them. Im not sure if this comes off as two lesbians not wanting to admit theyre lesbians (in part, becuase I'm not gay), but to me it was fascinating.

I was thinking of Exilcest when I was being very blunt and honest with this girl..telling her what a different kind of life she's led..and then telling her straight up, yeah, its those secrets that are interesting, let's talk about those. What would I imagine some of those subjects may be? I don't know..drug use? Some crazy family issue or experience? Malcontent with life? Fair enough topics, I think.

But nah, lets just sugarcoat~ 

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Just another pointless post, folks. Keep moving, nothing to see here~
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