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Author Topic: 1L Attrition Rates : Beg the ABA to do away with ALL these CESSPOOLS  (Read 30770 times)

legalized

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Re: 1L Attrition Rates : Beg the ABA to do away with ALL these CESSPOOLS
« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2010, 10:15:36 AM »
I simply said money, I really enjoy law school a lot if I won the lottery I would probably still be doing it.  You don't have to wait two years etc, I don't think schools really care much what you did before law school. All they care about his UGPA and LSAT and maybe personal statement etc makes up no more than 5% of your admissions decision. 

I think it is good to work in a law firm and just know what you are getting into, my first year of law school would not expose to anything about lawyers do on a day to day basis and I think you should work in it for a year to see if you would enjoy it. If you are going to commit 100k and 3 years of your life, it might be worth spending a year of time working in the environment. Obviously, you don't have to and plenty of people don't I just think it helps and a lot of people complain when they actually go into their 1L or 2L job and realize law school is not very similar to go to law school. Again that is just my opinion, maybe some people think law school is complete preparation and I am only a 1L so I imagine there is a lot more to learn.

Yes they do love work experience in the field of law...it's the education part I was addressing.

cooleylawstudent

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Re: 1L Attrition Rates : Beg the ABA to do away with ALL these CESSPOOLS
« Reply #51 on: May 23, 2010, 11:56:49 AM »
so cooley is almost HALF the attrition rates of the ones on top of the list and yet people are still dumb enough to claim we're somehow the "worst".....yeah.... ::)

From Paul L. Caron, TaxProf Blog:

LawSchoolNumbers.com ranks the 195 law schools by 1L attrition rates.  (The ABA Section on Legal Education publishes aggregate attrition rates, and each school's attrition rate is available on its official ABA data sheet.)  Here are the 25 law schools with the highest attrition rates according to LawSchoolNumbers.com, along with the school's 2009 U.S. News overall ranking:

   1. Whittier (51.5% 1L attrition, #161 in U.S. News)
   2. Touro (37.4%, #171)
   3. Golden Gate (36.9%, #174)
   4. Western State (32.6%, not ranked)
   5. Jones School of Law (32.3%, not ranked)
   6. Widener (30.5%, #179)
   7. St. Thomas University (28.5%, #174)
   8. Barry (27.6%, #181)
   9. Liberty (27.1%, not ranked)
  10. Thomas M Cooley (26.0%, #181)
  11. Florida Coastal (23.7%, #171)
  12. California Western (23.6%, #156)
  13. Valparaiso (23.4%, #143)
  14. Florida International (23.3%, #153)
  15. Capital (22.8%, #161)
  16. Louisville (22.5%, #100)
  17. North Carolina Central (22.1%, #168)
  18. Detroit Mercy (21.9%, $163)
  19. Nova Southeastern (21.8%, #158)
  20. Oklahoma City (21.0%, $168)
  21. Willamette (21.0%, #137)
  22. Western New England (20.7%, #171)
  23. Northern Kentucky (20.2%, #156)
  24. University of The District of Columbia (20.0%, #181)
  25. Franklin Pierce (19.9%, #131)

With the economy and the over over abundance of law schools and graduates, how in good conscious can the ABA justify keeping these school accredited.  They are all abominations.  And Louisville.... SHAME ON YOU!

bigs5068

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Re: 1L Attrition Rates : Beg the ABA to do away with ALL these CESSPOOLS
« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2010, 12:24:46 PM »
Well the academic attrition rate is what matters and the information is outdated at least as far as GGU goes, because it is at 24% and 12% of that 24% includes transfer to higher ranked schools.

If a school had a 20% or more academic attrition rate I think the ABA would step in. You really need to recognize the difference between academic and other reasons on LSAC for attrition, because they are very different reasons. The other category for the most part includes transfer students that went to higher ranked schools and did very well in their first year so those are not sad cases. The other also probably includes people that dropped out because they don't like the law and maybe some people quit when they don't perform as well as they wanted to. One guy quit after first semester in a different, because he had a 2.8, which put him somewhere around the middle of the pack. He was convinced the entire semester he would be in the top 10%, but shockingly enough he wasn't because everybody in law school thinks that and it has a 10% chance of happening.

legalized

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Re: 1L Attrition Rates : Beg the ABA to do away with ALL these CESSPOOLS
« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2010, 04:21:10 PM »
so cooley is almost HALF the attrition rates of the ones on top of the list and yet people are still dumb enough to claim we're somehow the "worst".....yeah.... ::)

From Paul L. Caron, TaxProf Blog:

LawSchoolNumbers.com ranks the 195 law schools by 1L attrition rates.  (The ABA Section on Legal Education publishes aggregate attrition rates, and each school's attrition rate is available on its official ABA data sheet.)  Here are the 25 law schools with the highest attrition rates according to LawSchoolNumbers.com, along with the school's 2009 U.S. News overall ranking:

   1. Whittier (51.5% 1L attrition, #161 in U.S. News)
   2. Touro (37.4%, #171)
   3. Golden Gate (36.9%, #174)
   4. Western State (32.6%, not ranked)
   5. Jones School of Law (32.3%, not ranked)
   6. Widener (30.5%, #179)
   7. St. Thomas University (28.5%, #174)
   8. Barry (27.6%, #181)
   9. Liberty (27.1%, not ranked)
  10. Thomas M Cooley (26.0%, #181)
  11. Florida Coastal (23.7%, #171)
  12. California Western (23.6%, #156)
  13. Valparaiso (23.4%, #143)
  14. Florida International (23.3%, #153)
  15. Capital (22.8%, #161)
  16. Louisville (22.5%, #100)
  17. North Carolina Central (22.1%, #168)
  18. Detroit Mercy (21.9%, $163)
  19. Nova Southeastern (21.8%, #158)
  20. Oklahoma City (21.0%, $168)
  21. Willamette (21.0%, #137)
  22. Western New England (20.7%, #171)
  23. Northern Kentucky (20.2%, #156)
  24. University of The District of Columbia (20.0%, #181)
  25. Franklin Pierce (19.9%, #131)

With the economy and the over over abundance of law schools and graduates, how in good conscious can the ABA justify keeping these school accredited.  They are all abominations.  And Louisville.... SHAME ON YOU!

Honestly, at the end of the day, even if the school is completely unaccredited, if it's working for you, don't worry about what else is going on with it.  Somebody from Whittier is enjoying themselves there.


cooleylawstudent

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Re: 1L Attrition Rates : Beg the ABA to do away with ALL these CESSPOOLS
« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2010, 04:24:25 PM »
He had a 2.8 and quit?  ???  Better to be middle lawyer than top paralegal, but whatever I guess.
Did he at least transfer into an MBA or something where his credits would count, or did he just say "daddy paid for it/uncle same and I dont plan to pay it back/ so I dont care....." How can someone justify a semester of lawschool and then quit without failing out? :P

Well the academic attrition rate is what matters and the information is outdated at least as far as GGU goes, because it is at 24% and 12% of that 24% includes transfer to higher ranked schools.

If a school had a 20% or more academic attrition rate I think the ABA would step in. You really need to recognize the difference between academic and other reasons on LSAC for attrition, because they are very different reasons. The other category for the most part includes transfer students that went to higher ranked schools and did very well in their first year so those are not sad cases. The other also probably includes people that dropped out because they don't like the law and maybe some people quit when they don't perform as well as they wanted to. One guy quit after first semester in a different, because he had a 2.8, which put him somewhere around the middle of the pack. He was convinced the entire semester he would be in the top 10%, but shockingly enough he wasn't because everybody in law school thinks that and it has a 10% chance of happening.

bigs5068

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Re: 1L Attrition Rates : Beg the ABA to do away with ALL these CESSPOOLS
« Reply #55 on: May 24, 2010, 11:43:49 AM »
Yea some people think they are really special, I know you need to keep a 3.0 to keep your scholarship, so maybe he had a scholarship and didn't want to spend the money for a J.D. that would make the most sense, but it is cumulative 3.0 for the year and it is guaranteed for one year so I think he should have stayed the whole year if it was free and tried to keep a 3.0, but people have their reasons.  He was not in my section, but he wasn't there 2nd semester and someone told me he got a 2.8 and quit. Maybe it was personal issues I barely knew the guy I just remembered it, because I thought it was weird that you would quit with a 2.8, which puts you around the middle of the pack.   

cooleylawstudent

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Re: 1L Attrition Rates : Beg the ABA to do away with ALL these CESSPOOLS
« Reply #56 on: May 24, 2010, 11:48:32 AM »
I have already noticed people who claim they'll ace everything get a D(some for the first time,or so they claim, in their entire lives) Its odd since they dont seem to blame themselves. They blame the teachers for teaching it their way(although everyone else seemed to pick it up just fine) and even others for "blowing their curve"(which is ironic since if they are "so great" how could we "lesser" people "blow their curve" ???::)

Yea some people think they are really special, I know you need to keep a 3.0 to keep your scholarship, so maybe he had a scholarship and didn't want to spend the money for a J.D. that would make the most sense, but it is cumulative 3.0 for the year and it is guaranteed for one year so I think he should have stayed the whole year if it was free and tried to keep a 3.0, but people have their reasons.  He was not in my section, but he wasn't there 2nd semester and someone told me he got a 2.8 and quit. Maybe it was personal issues I barely knew the guy I just remembered it, because I thought it was weird that you would quit with a 2.8, which puts you around the middle of the pack.

sonofapickle

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Re: 1L Attrition Rates : Beg the ABA to do away with ALL these CESSPOOLS
« Reply #57 on: May 24, 2010, 01:18:22 PM »
I simply said money, I really enjoy law school a lot if I won the lottery I would probably still be doing it.  You don't have to wait two years etc, I don't think schools really care much what you did before law school. All they care about his UGPA and LSAT and maybe personal statement etc makes up no more than 5% of your admissions decision. 

I think it is good to work in a law firm and just know what you are getting into, my first year of law school would not expose to anything about lawyers do on a day to day basis and I think you should work in it for a year to see if you would enjoy it. If you are going to commit 100k and 3 years of your life, it might be worth spending a year of time working in the environment. Obviously, you don't have to and plenty of people don't I just think it helps and a lot of people complain when they actually go into their 1L or 2L job and realize law school is not very similar to go to law school. Again that is just my opinion, maybe some people think law school is complete preparation and I am only a 1L so I imagine there is a lot more to learn.

Yes they do love work experience in the field of law...it's the education part I was addressing.

I have more experience than most people on this board and not even in law school yet. I could say, I have 8 years worth of experience as I was being mentored and volunteering at various places that pertaining to law for 5 years, add 3 more years, and that would be 8 years of work experience. People say experience doesn't mean anything, but I will be picked over any other intern while in law school because of my background. I am well versed in the sciences and could possibly intern at an IP firm, well versed in securities as I have passed the series 7 and will have a degree in finance (corporate law), took some psych classes back in high school and college for liberal arts requirements (criminal law), know 3 languages (English included).

bigs5068

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Re: 1L Attrition Rates : Beg the ABA to do away with ALL these CESSPOOLS
« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2010, 03:50:06 PM »
and so do most people in law school. How f'ing dumb are you?  Believe or not at these Ivy League schools you want to go and even at my tier 4 people know 3 languages and have molecular biology degrees everybody is smart in law school. I made this comparision already in another thread, but I am 6'9 which is huge in normal life, but not in the basketball world it is normal.

All your academic accomplishments etc are impressive to Joe Schmo, but in law school everybody will have impressive backgrounds and nobody will care about what you did in the past or how smart you tell everybody you are.

bigs5068

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Re: 1L Attrition Rates : Beg the ABA to do away with ALL these CESSPOOLS
« Reply #59 on: May 24, 2010, 04:33:08 PM »
Also SonofPickle read this thread from some other people who did well on practice LSAT's you will some people did fine others had a significant drop. What will happen to you? Who knows until you nut up and take the actual test.

http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/studying-for-the-lsat/how-much-did-your-lsat-score-drop-from-your-highest-practice-score/