Jr. BigLaw Associate in NY Taking Questions

[SEC_2L]

You guys are the ones insisting on living in NYC instead of Dallas, Denver, Kansas CIty, Houston, etc. Its hot, but you can start at NYC market in Dallas and have a ridiculously low cost of living...

Durden once again speaks the truth.

If these market rates are based on cost of living for their respective cities, then one of 2 things needs to happen - other markets need to be starting much lower than New York since their cost of living is, accordingly, lower than New York

or

Keep everybody where they are and move the New York associates much higher.

Or..or..or...

NYC Associates learn to live a happier life with $65k take-home pay.

/hating

such a hater

[Matthies]

You guys are the ones insisting on living in NYC instead of Dallas, Denver, Kansas CIty, Houston, etc. Its hot, but you can start at NYC market in Dallas and have a ridiculously low cost of living...

Durden once again speaks the truth.

If these market rates are based on cost of living for their respective cities, then one of 2 things needs to happen - other markets need to be starting much lower than New York since their cost of living is, accordingly, lower than New York

or

Keep everybody where they are and move the New York associates much higher.

Or..or..or...

NYC Associates learn to live a happier life with $65k take-home pay.

/hating

such a hater

Yes but its harder to be smug about yourself and your big law job if you don’t work in SF or NYC. That’s a lot of looking down your nose you give up if you move to a mid market. Its an intangable perk. That alone is worth its weight in gold on law school discussion boards. 

[TruOne]

You guys are the ones insisting on living in NYC instead of Dallas, Denver, Kansas CIty, Houston, etc. Its hot, but you can start at NYC market in Dallas and have a ridiculously low cost of living...

Durden once again speaks the truth.

If these market rates are based on cost of living for their respective cities, then one of 2 things needs to happen - other markets need to be starting much lower than New York since their cost of living is, accordingly, lower than New York

or

Keep everybody where they are and move the New York associates much higher.

Or..or..or...

NYC Associates learn to live a happier life with $65k take-home pay.

/hating

such a hater

Yes but its harder to be smug about yourself and your big law job if you don’t work in SF or NYC. That’s a lot of looking down your nose you give up if you move to a mid market. Its an intangable perk. That alone is worth its weight in gold on law school discussion boards. 

Until you get layed off. . .

But none of this will matter in 5-10 years because law firms will EVENTUALLY go up to 190k and Law students will completely forget about the 6000 jobs that were lost and offers rescinded. Just like in 2001, and just like in the early 90's.

History has a way of always repeating itself.

Sands:

When your first firm gave you the Axe, did they do it like in Office Space, or did they leave you a stickey note on your computer and deactivate your fob?


Also, how many SA's at your firm do you think are gonna get No-offered this summer?

[Burning Sands, Esq.]

Durden once again speaks the truth.

If these market rates are based on cost of living for their respective cities, then one of 2 things needs to happen - other markets need to be starting much lower than New York since their cost of living is, accordingly, lower than New York

or

Keep everybody where they are and move the New York associates much higher.

Or..or..or...

NYC Associates learn to live a happier life with $65k take-home pay.

/hating

LOL  Yeah, you were hating.

[Burning Sands, Esq.]

You guys are the ones insisting on living in NYC instead of Dallas, Denver, Kansas CIty, Houston, etc. Its hot, but you can start at NYC market in Dallas and have a ridiculously low cost of living...

Durden once again speaks the truth.

If these market rates are based on cost of living for their respective cities, then one of 2 things needs to happen - other markets need to be starting much lower than New York since their cost of living is, accordingly, lower than New York

or

Keep everybody where they are and move the New York associates much higher.

Or..or..or...

NYC Associates learn to live a happier life with $65k take-home pay.

/hating

such a hater

Yes but its harder to be smug about yourself and your big law job if you don’t work in SF or NYC. That’s a lot of looking down your nose you give up if you move to a mid market. Its an intangable perk. That alone is worth its weight in gold on law school discussion boards. 

LOL

I'm sure that's true with some Biglaw associates.  The profession here in NY does tend to look down on every other state, including Texas and Illinois, and especially California.  Before I got out here I thought much of that was merely due to NY snobbery, which, of course, some of it is, but most of it comes from the fact that the NY market is just that much larger in terms of the amount and size of cases and transactions that are done here.  When you look at the Am-Law or Vault 100 firms, it is no coincidence that of the top 10 firms listed, 8 of those 10 are in New York. 

A few years back when I was in law school, a lawyer once told me "if  you get an offer from a NY firm, take it, because you can springboard from there to wherever else you want to go."  So far I haven't seen anything that contradicts that proposition.

[Burning Sands, Esq.]

Sands:

When your first firm gave you the Axe, did they do it like in Office Space, or did they leave you a stickey note on your computer and deactivate your fob?


Also, how many SA's at your firm do you think are gonna get No-offered this summer?

I tried to come into work one day and found all my *&^% outside on the sidewalk.  Just kidding. 

Actually, what had happened was...As with many other firms, the rumors and speculation were buzzing long before we got any official word.  Everybody was walking on pins and needles for months.  I officially found out by opening up the Wall Street Journal and reading a headline that our firm was giving folks the axe.  That forced the partners' hand to come clean and so then they broke their silence and gave people official notice.

Re your second question - that is the million dollar question that everybody has been wondering, especially the summer associates.  Wish I knew but I don't make those decisions so I'd hate to speculate and freak people out anymore than they already are.  I can tell you that the morale among the summers is down. They all pretty much expect to get axed regardless of whether this is true or not.

[TruOne]

Sands:

When your first firm gave you the Axe, did they do it like in Office Space, or did they leave you a stickey note on your computer and deactivate your fob?


Also, how many SA's at your firm do you think are gonna get No-offered this summer?

I tried to come into work one day and found all my poo outside on the sidewalk.  Just kidding. 

Actually, what had happened was...As with many other firms, the rumors and speculation were buzzing long before we got any official word.  Everybody was walking on pins and needles for months.  I officially found out by opening up the Wall Street Journal and reading a headline that our firm was giving folks the axe.  That forced the partners' hand to come clean and so then they broke their silence and gave people official notice.

Re your second question - that is the million dollar question that everybody has been wondering, especially the summer associates.  Wish I knew but I don't make those decisions so I'd hate to speculate and freak people out anymore than they already are.  I can tell you that the morale among the summers is down. They all pretty much expect to get axed regardless of whether this is true or not.

So what advice would you give to a SA that got no-offered and is forced into 3L OCI.

It used to be that only "drunk idiots who did crappy work" got no-offered, but now it is a likely possibility that good SA's will get the axe. Do you think they'll still have that stigma of "what was wrong with you?" surrounding them when they enter the Job hunt/rat race again?

[Matthies]

Sands:

When your first firm gave you the Axe, did they do it like in Office Space, or did they leave you a stickey note on your computer and deactivate your fob?


Also, how many SA's at your firm do you think are gonna get No-offered this summer?

I tried to come into work one day and found all my poo outside on the sidewalk.  Just kidding. 

Actually, what had happened was...As with many other firms, the rumors and speculation were buzzing long before we got any official word.  Everybody was walking on pins and needles for months.  I officially found out by opening up the Wall Street Journal and reading a headline that our firm was giving folks the axe.  That forced the partners' hand to come clean and so then they broke their silence and gave people official notice.

Re your second question - that is the million dollar question that everybody has been wondering, especially the summer associates.  Wish I knew but I don't make those decisions so I'd hate to speculate and freak people out anymore than they already are.  I can tell you that the morale among the summers is down. They all pretty much expect to get axed regardless of whether this is true or not.

So what advice would you give to a SA that got no-offered and is forced into 3L OCI.

It used to be that only "drunk idiots who did crappy work" got no-offered, but now it is a likely possibility that good SA's will get the axe. Do you think they'll still have that stigma of "what was wrong with you?" surrounding them when they enter the Job hunt/rat race again?

Yikes, I did not think about that, man I hope people will start giving people the benfit of the doubt.

[Burning Sands, Esq.]

Sands:

When your first firm gave you the Axe, did they do it like in Office Space, or did they leave you a stickey note on your computer and deactivate your fob?


Also, how many SA's at your firm do you think are gonna get No-offered this summer?

I tried to come into work one day and found all my poo outside on the sidewalk.  Just kidding. 

Actually, what had happened was...As with many other firms, the rumors and speculation were buzzing long before we got any official word.  Everybody was walking on pins and needles for months.  I officially found out by opening up the Wall Street Journal and reading a headline that our firm was giving folks the axe.  That forced the partners' hand to come clean and so then they broke their silence and gave people official notice.

Re your second question - that is the million dollar question that everybody has been wondering, especially the summer associates.  Wish I knew but I don't make those decisions so I'd hate to speculate and freak people out anymore than they already are.  I can tell you that the morale among the summers is down. They all pretty much expect to get axed regardless of whether this is true or not.

So what advice would you give to a SA that got no-offered and is forced into 3L OCI.

It used to be that only "drunk idiots who did crappy work" got no-offered, but now it is a likely possibility that good SA's will get the axe. Do you think they'll still have that stigma of "what was wrong with you?" surrounding them when they enter the Job hunt/rat race again?

Absolutely not.

Look, everybody knows that BigLaw is getting bent over right now.  After I lost my job, every single place I interviewed with knew what time it was and nobody asked me "so why did you leave?"  1 year ago, you would have been asked that if you tried to jump ship from one firm to another.  Today, all the conventional wisdom of Biglaw has been turned on its head.  I've literally seen scores of the best and brightest attorneys in the profession from the best schools get laid off in the blink of an eye like they were nothing.  Once I saw my frat brother get laid off from Skadden, I knew that silly season was in full effect.  This guy was Ivy league undergrad, T-14 law school, Editor-in-Chief of the Law Review, came out of law school working for Cravath right off the bat before transferring over to Skadden.  Laid off. 

Bananas I tell you.  Straight bananas.

So no stigma should attach to any summer who is in 3L OCI trying to find a job.  As a 3L you should have the right to smack somebody with the Homey the Clown sock for even suggesting something that stupid in an interview.

Although as a caveat, 3L OCI is traditionally a hard sell even in good economic times.  Most firms don't hire 3L's, as you probably know.  Thus, my advice for folks who get dinged from their SA position, either (i) go into a clerkship or (ii) search outside the V-100.

[Matthies]

Sands:

When your first firm gave you the Axe, did they do it like in Office Space, or did they leave you a stickey note on your computer and deactivate your fob?


Also, how many SA's at your firm do you think are gonna get No-offered this summer?

I tried to come into work one day and found all my poo outside on the sidewalk.  Just kidding. 

Actually, what had happened was...As with many other firms, the rumors and speculation were buzzing long before we got any official word.  Everybody was walking on pins and needles for months.  I officially found out by opening up the Wall Street Journal and reading a headline that our firm was giving folks the axe.  That forced the partners' hand to come clean and so then they broke their silence and gave people official notice.

Re your second question - that is the million dollar question that everybody has been wondering, especially the summer associates.  Wish I knew but I don't make those decisions so I'd hate to speculate and freak people out anymore than they already are.  I can tell you that the morale among the summers is down. They all pretty much expect to get axed regardless of whether this is true or not.

So what advice would you give to a SA that got no-offered and is forced into 3L OCI.

It used to be that only "drunk idiots who did crappy work" got no-offered, but now it is a likely possibility that good SA's will get the axe. Do you think they'll still have that stigma of "what was wrong with you?" surrounding them when they enter the Job hunt/rat race again?

Absolutely not.

Look, everybody knows that BigLaw is getting bent over right now.  After I lost my job, every single place I interviewed with knew what time it was and nobody asked me "so why did you leave?"  1 year ago, you would have been asked that if you tried to jump ship from one firm to another.  Today, all the conventional wisdom of Biglaw has been turned on its head.  I've literally seen scores of the best and brightest attorneys in the profession from the best schools get laid off in the blink of an eye like they were nothing.  Once I saw my frat brother get laid off from Skadden, I knew that silly season was in full effect.  This guy was Ivy league undergrad, T-14 law school, Editor-in-Chief of the Law Review, came out of law school working for Cravath right off the bat before transferring over to Skadden.  Laid off. 

Bananas I tell you.  Straight bananas.

So no stigma should attach to any summer who is in 3L OCI trying to find a job.  As a 3L you should have the right to smack somebody with the Homey the Clown sock for even suggesting something that stupid in an interview.

Although as a caveat, 3L OCI is traditionally a hard sell even in good economic times.  Most firms don't hire 3L's, as you probably know.  Thus, my advice for folks who get dinged from their SA position, either (i) go into a clerkship or (ii) search outside the V-100.

I would add spend your 3rd year networking hardcore if you got dumped from your 2L summer SA job. I had several open offers coming out of my last semester all from contacts and all guaranteed jobs if I just said the word. These ranged from being brought in by a managing partner at a big firm in town to work directly under him in his department to clerking for a judge. Who you know can beat just about everything. But it takes TIME and TRUST before you can start calling in favors so start as soon as you get back to school by getting involved in the legal community outside of law schools. Leave the clubs at the school for people who think mass mailing is a good way to find a job. Get out and make your rep in the legal community during your third year and you will have lots of people on the inside to help you find something.