Jr. BigLaw Associate in NY Taking Questions

[Matthies]

How many NY biglaw associates are actually going to make it to their 8th year? How many will make partner? I haven't seen any recent stats, but the numbers I looked at a 2-3 years ago were not encouraging.

The was an artcile in the ABA mag a few months ago that said 80% of big law assc are out by year 4 (either by choice or otherwise) it was not just NYC though, that was nation wide

[T. Durden]

How many NY biglaw associates are actually going to make it to their 8th year? How many will make partner? I haven't seen any recent stats, but the numbers I looked at a 2-3 years ago were not encouraging.

last i heard, less than 1% in nyc biglaw stay long enough to make partner at the firm where they started at

as to the question re total % of nyc biglaw associates who make partner somewhere, i don't know. imagine that it'd be higher, but not by much. the salary structure dictates pretty strict limitations.

[M_Cool]

Just look at the incoming associates vs. how many partners a firm makes each year.  I think Cravath has 100+ SA's but only makes like 5 people partners a year?  Not very encouraging.  However, I doubt former Cravath associates are struggling. I'm sure almost all of them have successful careers.

[Matthies]

Just look at the incoming associates vs. how many partners a firm makes each year.  I think Cravath has 100+ SA's but only makes like 5 people partners a year?  Not very encouraging.  However, I doubt former Cravath associates are struggling. I'm sure almost all of them have successful careers.

Yea but I wonder where do you go after year 7 and you know your not making partner? Lateral? To what? Seems like your priced out of going anywhere but down in income till you get your own pratice going. I mean if you got overlooked at firm X firm Y's not going to make you partner, unless you got a big book of biz in which case your probably be partner at firm X anyway. Wonder what the exit stragey is like when your top of the pay scale but can't go any higher?

[T. Durden]

Just look at the incoming associates vs. how many partners a firm makes each year.  I think Cravath has 100+ SA's but only makes like 5 people partners a year?  Not very encouraging.  However, I doubt former Cravath associates are struggling. I'm sure almost all of them have successful careers.

Yea but I wonder where do you go after year 7 and you know your not making partner? Lateral? To what? Seems like your priced out of going anywhere but down in income till you get your own pratice going. I mean if you got overlooked at firm X firm Y's not going to make you partner, unless you got a big book of biz in which case your probably be partner at firm X anyway. Wonder what the exit stragey is like when your top of the pay scale but can't go any higher?

See, e.g., T.Durden, Jr. BigLaw Associate in NY Taking Questions, LAW SCHOOL DISCUSSION, 2,
available at http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/students/index.php?action=post;quote=5350415;topic=4020725.40;num_replies=48;sesc=cc4f2ab79e579bd1373b7554f7ad2db1 ("[M]y review is staffed almost exclusively with t20 (many t14) grads, many of whom have 4-8 yrs WE. Believe me, they're not doing DR because they want to. I hate to say it, but it appears to me that this ship be sinkin.'")

[Matthies]

Just look at the incoming associates vs. how many partners a firm makes each year.  I think Cravath has 100+ SA's but only makes like 5 people partners a year?  Not very encouraging.  However, I doubt former Cravath associates are struggling. I'm sure almost all of them have successful careers.

Yea but I wonder where do you go after year 7 and you know your not making partner? Lateral? To what? Seems like your priced out of going anywhere but down in income till you get your own pratice going. I mean if you got overlooked at firm X firm Y's not going to make you partner, unless you got a big book of biz in which case your probably be partner at firm X anyway. Wonder what the exit stragey is like when your top of the pay scale but can't go any higher?

See, e.g., T.Durden, Jr. BigLaw Associate in NY Taking Questions, LAW SCHOOL DISCUSSION, 2,
available at http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/students/index.php?action=post;quote=5350415;topic=4020725.40;num_replies=48;sesc=cc4f2ab79e579bd1373b7554f7ad2db1 ("[M]y review is staffed almost exclusively with t20 (many t14) grads, many of whom have 4-8 yrs WE. Believe me, they're not doing DR because they want to. I hate to say it, but it appears to me that this ship be sinkin.'")

ouch from parter track to DR track. I guess that's when you loose the trophy wife

[big - fat - box]

What's bizarre to me is that a 4-8 yr assoc. probably doesn't even have enough skills to handle their own cases if they had to, like make their own deals or take a case to a jury trial.

[rolen27]

Thanks for taking our questions.

You mentioned that you did litigation work in NY, I was wondering if there are many firms in NYC focused on Appelate litigation or if it leans more toward corporate litigation. I know appelate work is very concentrated in DC, do NYC firms produce comparable work in that area?

thanks in advance

[Burning Sands, Esq.]

How many NY biglaw associates are actually going to make it to their 8th year? How many will make partner? I haven't seen any recent stats, but the numbers I looked at a 2-3 years ago were not encouraging.

last i heard, less than 1% in nyc biglaw stay long enough to make partner at the firm where they started at

as to the question re total % of nyc biglaw associates who make partner somewhere, i don't know. imagine that it'd be higher, but not by much. the salary structure dictates pretty strict limitations.

I concur.  I've seen and heard about the same. I think I can count all the 8th year associates at my firm on two hands (heck maybe even one hand).

[Burning Sands, Esq.]

How many NY biglaw associates are actually going to make it to their 8th year? How many will make partner? I haven't seen any recent stats, but the numbers I looked at a 2-3 years ago were not encouraging.

The was an artcile in the ABA mag a few months ago that said 80% of big law assc are out by year 4 (either by choice or otherwise) it was not just NYC though, that was nation wide

To that point, you guys should realize that Biglaw is a vehicle for most people to get somewhere else (US Attorney's office, In-House, Wall Street Hedge Fund, Private Practice, Political Office, etc.)  It is set up with the understanding (not just an assumption but a veritable expectation) that most of you will leave as soon as you are most marketable, aka Year 4.

When you are a 4th year associate you are the most marketable commodity in the legal profession.  It is generally accepted  that at year 4 you have been at the firm long enough to gain some actual useful experience, you know how to research, you know how to write, you know how to take dep's, you know where to file motions, or if you're on the transactional side - you know how to handle deals, you know where and when to file things with the state, etc.  In other words, you've picked up the basic nuts and bolts of the practice.

It is at that time (year 4) when headhunters will be coming after you FIERCE.  I am only a second year and they have already started coming after me.  As I understand it, it only gets worse until you hit year 4.  After year 4, a presumption attaches that if you are still at a firm you are trying to make partner, so the headhunters sorta dial it back some.  But at year 4, bananas.