Jr. BigLaw Associate in NY Taking Questions

[T. Durden]

This guy had like 20 years of work experience by himself, and there he was right next to the rest of us, reviewing documents.

Not to divulge too much detail, but I currently have a guy with 20+ yrs WE who used to be GC for one of the nation's major corporations on the K attny staff. In a fair and just world, I'd be getting this guy his coffee in the AM; instead, he asks me for permission to take lunch at 12:50 as opposed to 1. I can't help but wonder what I have gotten myself into.

[T. Durden]

To echo the post above, do all major markets have as much doc review?  I'm planning on using all of my bids on LA and maybe a few on secondary markets.  The good news is that most firms in LA seem to have large employment/labor groups so I imagine I could always request to be there if I want to avoid it.

This is going to depend on what is considered the “practice of law” in each jurisdiction. As I mentioned in the other thread NY’s law is pretty explicate and says doc review HAS TO BE DONE BY A LAWYER. Hence you have tons of contract lawyers in a state like NY. Not every state has that same rule, so in some states doc review can be done by paralegals or just about anyone in some cases. That’s how it is in Colorado. You don’t need to be a lawyer so I never actually met a contract lawyer and as far as I know we don’t even have companies that set up such services here (like in NYC). So you need to check what the practice requirements are in the jurisdiction you want to work in to find out if there is a lot of contract lawyer/doc review work going on there or it’s not something they normally have lawyers do.

All that being said, reviewing documents IS WHAT LAWYERS DO. Yes there is a difference between the lawyerly doc review and just clicking yes/no a screen in some firm’s basement. But if you don’t want to review “documents” be they contracts, wills, merger agreements, statutes or regulations, or something else law may not be what you expect. Most lawyers spend the vast majority of the time reviewing stuff and writing about what they have reviewed and very little in an actual courtroom.

haha and M Cool this is where you call out the 4 yr grad from the Uni of Denver who is currently prepping for the CO bar so that he can start his stay-at-home environmental interest job for lecturing you on what it means to be a lawyer

[Matthies]

To echo the post above, do all major markets have as much doc review?  I'm planning on using all of my bids on LA and maybe a few on secondary markets.  The good news is that most firms in LA seem to have large employment/labor groups so I imagine I could always request to be there if I want to avoid it.

This is going to depend on what is considered the “practice of law” in each jurisdiction. As I mentioned in the other thread NY’s law is pretty explicate and says doc review HAS TO BE DONE BY A LAWYER. Hence you have tons of contract lawyers in a state like NY. Not every state has that same rule, so in some states doc review can be done by paralegals or just about anyone in some cases. That’s how it is in Colorado. You don’t need to be a lawyer so I never actually met a contract lawyer and as far as I know we don’t even have companies that set up such services here (like in NYC). So you need to check what the practice requirements are in the jurisdiction you want to work in to find out if there is a lot of contract lawyer/doc review work going on there or it’s not something they normally have lawyers do.

All that being said, reviewing documents IS WHAT LAWYERS DO. Yes there is a difference between the lawyerly doc review and just clicking yes/no a screen in some firm’s basement. But if you don’t want to review “documents” be they contracts, wills, merger agreements, statutes or regulations, or something else law may not be what you expect. Most lawyers spend the vast majority of the time reviewing stuff and writing about what they have reviewed and very little in an actual courtroom.

haha and M Cool this is where you call out the 4 yr grad from the Uni of Denver who is currently prepping for the CO bar so that he can start his stay-at-home environmental interest job for lecturing you on what it means to be a lawyer

Well I have been pretending to be a law clerk for the last four years doing lawyer stuff in a law firm place where some real lawyers work so maybe I picked up something on the side once in a ahwile about what you guys actually do

[Burning Sands, Esq.]

This guy had like 20 years of work experience by himself, and there he was right next to the rest of us, reviewing documents.

Not to divulge too much detail, but I currently have a guy with 20+ yrs WE who used to be GC for one of the nation's major corporations on the K attny staff. In a fair and just world, I'd be getting this guy his coffee in the AM; instead, he asks me for permission to take lunch at 12:50 as opposed to 1. I can't help but wonder what I have gotten myself into.

It's bananas out there, man.  Straight bananas.

[rolen27]

I have a quick question, do you know anything about markets outside of NYC? ie how is the work and QOL different in other cities such as Chicago, DC, Boston, in the South (Dallas or Atlanta), and in the West (LA, SF)?

[Burning Sands, Esq.]

I have a quick question, do you know anything about markets outside of NYC? ie how is the work and QOL different in other cities such as Chicago, DC, Boston, in the South (Dallas or Atlanta), and in the West (LA, SF)?

California firms tend to have a rep as more "lifestyle" type firms.

DC, from what I hear, is not half bad.  A lot of political law practice groups are developing into biglaw as they adopt or acquire the DC lobbying firms.

Outside of NY, DC, NJ, and CA I'm not too familiar with the other markets personally but can ask around.

[Matthies]

My question is WHY DO YOU GUYS PUT UP WITH IT? I’ve never been to NYC maybe I would understand if I had. But why do you guys stay with the uncertainty of the legal profession, the layoffs, the crappy hours, the high cost of living, the taxes, the astronomical rents, being target city number one for every terrorist out there, the traffic, not being able to own a car, I guess I just don’t see the attraction vs. the hassels. What is it that makes so many lawyers want to live and work there? Granted we don’t pay $160 to start, but market is $120 and that will buy you a lot in cities like Denver or Phoenix or Houston.

[botbot]

My question is WHY DO YOU GUYS PUT UP WITH IT? I’ve never been to NYC maybe I would understand if I had. But why do you guys stay with the uncertainty of the legal profession, the layoffs, the crappy hours, the high cost of living, the taxes, the astronomical rents, being target city number one for every terrorist out there, the traffic, not being able to own a car, I guess I just don’t see the attraction vs. the hassels. What is it that makes so many lawyers want to live and work there? Granted we don’t pay $160 to start, but market is $120 and that will buy you a lot in cities like Denver or Phoenix or Houston.

The majority of Houston biglaw either 145 or 160.

[Matthies]

My question is WHY DO YOU GUYS PUT UP WITH IT? I’ve never been to NYC maybe I would understand if I had. But why do you guys stay with the uncertainty of the legal profession, the layoffs, the crappy hours, the high cost of living, the taxes, the astronomical rents, being target city number one for every terrorist out there, the traffic, not being able to own a car, I guess I just don’t see the attraction vs. the hassels. What is it that makes so many lawyers want to live and work there? Granted we don’t pay $160 to start, but market is $120 and that will buy you a lot in cities like Denver or Phoenix or Houston.

The majority of Houston biglaw either 145 or 160.

Nice, we are lagging behind then

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