Law School Discussion

Poll

Considering all aspects of my situation, is there any hope of me getting a 150 plus on the September 2009 LSAT?

Yes
Maybe
No

I got a 137 on my LSATs. I'm bummed...should have cancelled.

Re: I got a 137 on my LSATs. I'm bummed...should have cancelled.
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2009, 05:21:47 PM »
did read through the whole post.  Just wanted to say, not all hope is lost. When I was practicing, I started around 152 and brought my score up to a 167 (ended up a little lower on the real test, but there were extenuating circumstances).  Just needed to read through a few books and learn a few skills.  If all you were doing is taking practice test, I cannot imagine you were actually learning anything.  Unlike the SAT, the LSAT isnt about memorizing.  You need to actually learn how to take the test itself.  I hope for you that a prep course will get you in the right direction.  And, if you do not get the score that you wont, dont let it bring you down.  I didnt end up with the one I wanted (really would have loved low 170s), had the lowest lsat score of any of the admits to my school (based on lawschoolnumbers data for non-URMs), and finished at the top of my class in law school.  It can be done.  This test doesnt define you.  It is important, but you can learn the material and improve.  Just need to focus your attention on the right thing.

Re: I got a 137 on my LSATs. I'm bummed...should have cancelled.
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2009, 06:02:37 PM »
did read through the whole post.  Just wanted to say, not all hope is lost. When I was practicing, I started around 152 and brought my score up to a 167 (ended up a little lower on the real test, but there were extenuating circumstances).  Just needed to read through a few books and learn a few skills.  If all you were doing is taking practice test, I cannot imagine you were actually learning anything.  Unlike the SAT, the LSAT isnt about memorizing.  You need to actually learn how to take the test itself.  I hope for you that a prep course will get you in the right direction.  And, if you do not get the score that you wont, dont let it bring you down.  I didnt end up with the one I wanted (really would have loved low 170s), had the lowest lsat score of any of the admits to my school (based on lawschoolnumbers data for non-URMs), and finished at the top of my class in law school.  It can be done.  This test doesnt define you.  It is important, but you can learn the material and improve.  Just need to focus your attention on the right thing.

Great advice. Very positive! I will take it. I wish all replys could be this informative, encouraging, and positive. Instead of negative, ignorant, and racist. THANKS A BUNCH! :-)

Re: I got a 137 on my LSATs. I'm bummed...should have cancelled.
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2009, 06:06:48 PM »
Also, poll is missing an option.

Where there is a will there is a way. NO is never an option. Optimism prevails even when naysayers like you exist.

Re: I got a 137 on my LSATs. I'm bummed...should have cancelled.
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2009, 06:09:48 PM »
I read it somewhere that most blacks don't pass the bar on their first try.  This is due to affirmative action where low LSAT blacks are being admitted.  It doesn't matter what the color of your skin is, if you do poorly on the LSAT, chance are you will have problem passing the bar exam.  Keep in mind that if you fail the bar exam twice, that's a whole year of time passed, since the bar is offered twice a year. 

Report what?  What I have read?  That people with low LSAT generally have problem passing the bar? 

Do some research. 


------------>>> DELETE <<--------------------

Re: I got a 137 on my LSATs. I'm bummed...should have cancelled.
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2009, 07:23:06 PM »
Study hard and you should do fine. Remember even a modest increase is a step in the right direction.  ;)

Re: I got a 137 on my LSATs. I'm bummed...should have cancelled.
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2009, 07:29:56 PM »
did read through the whole post.  Just wanted to say, not all hope is lost. When I was practicing, I started around 152 and brought my score up to a 167 (ended up a little lower on the real test, but there were extenuating circumstances).  Just needed to read through a few books and learn a few skills.  If all you were doing is taking practice test, I cannot imagine you were actually learning anything.  Unlike the SAT, the LSAT isnt about memorizing.  You need to actually learn how to take the test itself.  I hope for you that a prep course will get you in the right direction.  And, if you do not get the score that you wont, dont let it bring you down.  I didnt end up with the one I wanted (really would have loved low 170s), had the lowest lsat score of any of the admits to my school (based on lawschoolnumbers data for non-URMs), and finished at the top of my class in law school.  It can be done.  This test doesnt define you.  It is important, but you can learn the material and improve.  Just need to focus your attention on the right thing.

Great advice. Very positive! I will take it. I wish all replys could be this informative, encouraging, and positive. Instead of negative, ignorant, and racist. THANKS A BUNCH! :-)

These pre-1Ls with low scores are so naive.   ;D

Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: I got a 137 on my LSATs. I'm bummed...should have cancelled.
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2009, 07:34:24 PM »
I read it somewhere that most blacks don't pass the bar on their first try.  This is due to affirmative action where low LSAT blacks are being admitted.  It doesn't matter what the color of your skin is, if you do poorly on the LSAT, chance are you will have problem passing the bar exam.  Keep in mind that if you fail the bar exam twice, that's a whole year of time passed, since the bar is offered twice a year. 

I was going to report him when I read this. It made me pretty uncomfortable too, but you are entitled to your own BS opinions and beliefs.

Report what?  What I have read?  That people with low LSAT generally have problem passing the bar? 

Do some research. 


To the reporters who may have been offended by this statement, I'm not going to ban this user for expressing this opinion, however fundamentally flawed this user's logic may be.





That being said...until you pass the bar, you might want to avoid speculation.  As a threshold matter, you might be surprised to know that the bar exam actually has very little to do with law school at all.  Thus, it is difficult to imagine how one's admission into law school holds any relevance to passing the bar exam.  

As a black student who has passed two bar exams on the first try (one of those being the infamous New York), I can tell you that passing or failing the bar has nothing to do with affirmative action (where do you guys get these ideas from anyway, Richard Sander?), and everything to do with preparedness, endurance, financial support during the entire study period and adequate bar prep resources.  In other words, all of the things that have nothing to do with law school, and especially have nothing to do with how you were admitted into law school.

Moreover, the proposition that most blacks don't pass the bar on their first try due to affirmative action is further debunked when one introduces the fact that blacks at HBCU law schools, where there is no affirmative action, pass the bar exam at significantly lower numbers than do blacks who were admitted to Tier 1 law schools either with or without affirmative action.







Re: I got a 137 on my LSATs. I'm bummed...should have cancelled.
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2009, 07:47:46 PM »
I read it somewhere that most blacks don't pass the bar on their first try.  This is due to affirmative action where low LSAT blacks are being admitted.  It doesn't matter what the color of your skin is, if you do poorly on the LSAT, chance are you will have problem passing the bar exam.  Keep in mind that if you fail the bar exam twice, that's a whole year of time passed, since the bar is offered twice a year. 

I was going to report him when I read this. It made me pretty uncomfortable too, but you are entitled to your own BS opinions and beliefs.

Report what?  What I have read?  That people with low LSAT generally have problem passing the bar? 

Do some research. 


To the reporters who may have been offended by this statement, I'm not going to ban this user for expressing this opinion, however fundamentally flawed this user's logic may be.
 

I didn't say it.  I wouldn't know.  Study and stats say it.   





Quote
Moreover, the proposition that most blacks don't pass the bar on their first try due to affirmative action is further debunked when one introduces the fact that blacks at HBCU law schools, where there is no affirmative action, pass the bar exam at significantly lower numbers than do blacks who were admitted to Tier 1 law schools either with or without affirmative action.

The study is once again correct.  Blacks at HBCU law schools (ALL tier 3 and tier 4) will most definately have lower numbers than Tier 1 blacks/whites/whatever.  This once again proves the point that what I've stated ealier "It doesn't matter what the color of your skin is, if you do poorly on the LSAT, chance are you will have problem passing the bar exam." 

Re: I got a 137 on my LSATs. I'm bummed...should have cancelled.
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2009, 08:02:15 PM »
some people just want an excuse to scream discrimination even if the person saying it is in the same group that they are. I tried a post stateing facts too, people dont want to hear it. Just accept it. That's why I wont even try anymore. Just move on man.

Re: I got a 137 on my LSATs. I'm bummed...should have cancelled.
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2009, 08:28:44 PM »
some people just want an excuse to scream discrimination even if the person saying it is in the same group that they are. I tried a post stateing facts too, people dont want to hear it. Just accept it. That's why I wont even try anymore. Just move on man.

Your post was hot garbage.  Live with it.


I read it somewhere that most blacks don't pass the bar on their first try.  This is due to affirmative action where low LSAT blacks are being admitted.  It doesn't matter what the color of your skin is, if you do poorly on the LSAT, chance are you will have problem passing the bar exam.  Keep in mind that if you fail the bar exam twice, that's a whole year of time passed, since the bar is offered twice a year. 

Studies and stats say that affirmative action leads to blacks not passing the bar on their first try?  Or was your language just clumsy and you meant to say that studies and stats show that low scorers on the LSAT don't pass the bar on their first try (which you tried to toss in at the end, but the first two lines say something altogether different)?  Moreover, why exactly do you think LSAT score has anything to do with the skills on the bar exam?  From what I understand of the bar from friends, there's a lot of memorization and writing involved, which is precisely not what the LSAT is.

If anything, you may have shown a correlation, but there are plenty of other causes (as Sands pointed out in his post) that could be the reason why certain groups may not perform as well on a test.


Moreover, the proposition that most blacks don't pass the bar on their first try due to affirmative action is further debunked when one introduces the fact that blacks at HBCU law schools, where there is no affirmative action, pass the bar exam at significantly lower numbers than do blacks who were admitted to Tier 1 law schools either with or without affirmative action.

The study is once again correct.  Blacks at HBCU law schools (ALL tier 3 and tier 4) will most definately have lower numbers than Tier 1 blacks/whites/whatever.  This once again proves the point that what I've stated ealier "It doesn't matter what the color of your skin is, if you do poorly on the LSAT, chance are you will have problem passing the bar exam." 

Again, this is the other argument and you seemed to be making two arguments in your first post.  You didn't say just that low-scorers on the LSAT do poorly, you also said that most blacks don't pass the bar on the first try "due to affirmative action..."  In your haste to make an argument about affirmative action, you muddled the issues in your post.  Sorry for ya!