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Author Topic: Studying for the BAR, huge DEBT, no JOB, WHAT DO DO?  (Read 46460 times)

jack24

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Re: Studying for the BAR, huge DEBT, no JOB, WHAT DO DO?
« Reply #120 on: March 15, 2012, 05:08:58 PM »
This thread is very interesting. 
I think the economy is getting better, but I still think some law students are absolutely delusional.  My first comment would be that JAG is insanely competitive.  It isn't just difficult to get it, it's almost impossible if you are a normal civilian law student. 

Next, I'll tell you about a few of the jobs I didn't get during my ridiculously long and vigorous job search.

This all occurred in the late summer months of 2011:

1:  Staff Attorney position for a state supreme court. ($61,000/yr)   I made the top four out of 150 applicants, but I was rejected all the same.
2:  District Court Judge Clerk ($38,000/yr), they received 120 applications from law school graduates.  I did not get an interview.
3:  A 50/50 split office share with a solo practitioner (Who Knows?/yr)  I made the final two out of twenty interviewees.  Yes, twenty post-bar applicants actually interviewed for a 1099 spot with no benefits where you get 50% of what you collect.
4:  An associate position at a large firm in a small market.  The hiring partner is a friend of my fathers, and he told me that they received over 300 applications, 50 of which were from IVY league graduates.  He also mentioned that they hired two summer clerks out of 115 applications.
5:  An associate position in a small firm in a small market.  They interviewed ten candidates and they only offered $35,000 a year with no bonuses.  They managed to hire an attorney licensed in two states.

I ended up finding a decent job, but I ended up getting lucky.

So, yes, you can get a job, but there aren't really any easy avenues right now.  Even independent contractor doc review positions are competitive.

john4040

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Re: Studying for the BAR, huge DEBT, no JOB, WHAT DO DO?
« Reply #121 on: March 18, 2012, 01:37:46 AM »
This thread is very interesting. 
I think the economy is getting better, but I still think some law students are absolutely delusional.  My first comment would be that JAG is insanely competitive.  It isn't just difficult to get it, it's almost impossible if you are a normal civilian law student. 

Next, I'll tell you about a few of the jobs I didn't get during my ridiculously long and vigorous job search.

This all occurred in the late summer months of 2011:

1:  Staff Attorney position for a state supreme court. ($61,000/yr)   I made the top four out of 150 applicants, but I was rejected all the same.
2:  District Court Judge Clerk ($38,000/yr), they received 120 applications from law school graduates.  I did not get an interview.
3:  A 50/50 split office share with a solo practitioner (Who Knows?/yr)  I made the final two out of twenty interviewees.  Yes, twenty post-bar applicants actually interviewed for a 1099 spot with no benefits where you get 50% of what you collect.
4:  An associate position at a large firm in a small market.  The hiring partner is a friend of my fathers, and he told me that they received over 300 applications, 50 of which were from IVY league graduates.  He also mentioned that they hired two summer clerks out of 115 applications.
5:  An associate position in a small firm in a small market.  They interviewed ten candidates and they only offered $35,000 a year with no bonuses.  They managed to hire an attorney licensed in two states.

I ended up finding a decent job, but I ended up getting lucky.

So, yes, you can get a job, but there aren't really any easy avenues right now.  Even independent contractor doc review positions are competitive.

Good info, but I'm curious as to (1) your stats, and (2) your new job.  Congrats, by the way!

jack24

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Re: Studying for the BAR, huge DEBT, no JOB, WHAT DO DO?
« Reply #122 on: March 20, 2012, 01:01:03 AM »
T2, Top 25%  LR Board, Moot Court, 5 years finance experience.

5-10 atty firm, corporate litigation, small market

john4040

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Re: Studying for the BAR, huge DEBT, no JOB, WHAT DO DO?
« Reply #123 on: March 20, 2012, 01:06:24 AM »
Nice.  We're actually about even on the stats.

LSDSL

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Re: Studying for the BAR, huge DEBT, no JOB, WHAT DO DO?
« Reply #124 on: March 20, 2012, 04:02:19 PM »
I'm sorry, I thought you were referring to my "Law Clerk" position at my old job.  I didn't mean to belittle my clerkship.  Clerkships are among the most competitive jobs in the legal field for a reason.  Judicial Clerks have uncanny access to the thought process that judges use.  Having that kind of insight is something that can't be taught.  This (usually) translates into intreviews and job offers down the road. 

- LSDSL

My point exactly. The theory that "competitive" means "better".
By that theory the only person worth marrying is the one you win on the bachelor.


Did you stop reading after my third sentence? 

sollicitus

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Re: Studying for the BAR, huge DEBT, no JOB, WHAT DO DO?
« Reply #125 on: March 21, 2012, 03:07:31 PM »
I'm sorry, I thought you were referring to my "Law Clerk" position at my old job.  I didn't mean to belittle my clerkship.  Clerkships are among the most competitive jobs in the legal field for a reason.  Judicial Clerks have uncanny access to the thought process that judges use.  Having that kind of insight is something that can't be taught.  This (usually) translates into intreviews and job offers down the road. 

- LSDSL

My point exactly. The theory that "competitive" means "better".
By that theory the only person worth marrying is the one you win on the bachelor.


Did you stop reading after my third sentence?

No, I read it all. I just know people with far less than a JD with the exact same title and judge access. Plus that only helps if you are working cases under that same judge later on, and in reality you will probably not be since if you want to work for a firm you will have to go where the work is, and that will probably be in a different district.

Unless your long term goal is to be a prosocuter or public defender (puke to both for long term goals, enjoy eating dollar store food for life) then it is not nearly as great as you are trying to sell it as.

There was a guy on here awhile back trying to brag about how "great" using his JD to get into the FBI was. Same general theories: Competitive to get into, etc.  (plus he seemed brainwashed by made for tv movies about the glory of FBI,Texas Ranger,blah,blah,blah)  He was an idiot.

jack24

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Re: Studying for the BAR, huge DEBT, no JOB, WHAT DO DO?
« Reply #126 on: March 21, 2012, 10:17:57 PM »
Sollicitus:

1: Prosecution isn't a bad gig anymore.  Three or four years of experience in a medium market and it's likely you'll make $70,000+.  Nothing amazing, but not dollar store.

2: Law degrees are highly coveted by the FBI.  It's the third most desirable degree after a Masters in Computer Science and a Masters in Accounting/CPA. 

While "competitive" doesn't mean "better", there are a lot of perks to some government jobs (Prosecutor, FBI agent, Jag Officer).  The hours are pretty manageable and the work can be fulfilling.  The loan forgiveness programs are also pretty great.    I intered at a prosecutor's office in a county with 300,000+ people  My supervisor worked an average of 45 hours a week for 80,000 a year.  He rarely had to do any paperwork and he was in court all the time (in the same building as our office).  There is a reason why they get 100 applications for every open spot.

sollicitus

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Re: Studying for the BAR, huge DEBT, no JOB, WHAT DO DO?
« Reply #127 on: March 22, 2012, 06:34:05 PM »
Two sides to every coin I guess. I just see people crying their brains out how 1st year law grads no longer can make $160,000 a year day one, so mentioning the idea of working up to $70,000 as societies janitor dosn't much seem like winning the lottery when viewed from that persepective.

I often hear 1's (and even worse those who have yet to even take the lsat) act like they know the world, and I angers me to the point my blood wants to boil over their stupidity. Point being, since a 3L has yet to do all the things that the grads are saying, I will try to hold my tongue on some of it. I bet 3L's with opinions are just as annoying to grads as those previously mentioned are to everyone as a whole.

LSDSL

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Re: Studying for the BAR, huge DEBT, no JOB, WHAT DO DO?
« Reply #128 on: June 19, 2012, 04:18:48 PM »
Bumpy bump bump

SoCalLawGuy

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Re: Studying for the BAR, huge DEBT, no JOB, WHAT DO DO?
« Reply #129 on: September 23, 2012, 05:34:49 AM »
Have you decided what to do yet?
I work as a project manager, at an IT firm and so I managed to put some money aside but I was already working when I decided to attend law school. I know it's hard but with a bit of luck everything might turn out OK for you.