Studying for the BAR, huge DEBT, no JOB, WHAT DO DO?

[UnbiasedObserver]

Thanks for your advice, buddy.  That really added a derth of information to the conversation.  Over 5,000 posts, huh?  Derrrrrr

While I don't condone the manner of Matthies' reply, he has been helping people with fantastic advice about job searching/networking/whatever for literally years.  If people want to learn more about what to do instead of merely whining, they should check his threads!   

[Matthies]

Ohhh I didn't realize you were the LSD police.  Next time I want to post something, I'll be sure to check with you first. 

I probably owe you an applogy, I was bing somwaht of a jerk, sorry about that, its not usually my style but I'm having a rough day myself and you just happened, through no fault of your own, to get sniped at for it. Sorry about that. But do look up some of my older posts on netowrking, that's going to be your best shot right now and where I would put most of my eggs, along with some mass maling and looking up almunia. And no your not alone, but with some leg work you can get past this. Good luck.

[new2law]

He just seemed to imply that there was a difference in the degree impacting the rank and I wanted to correct that. As for military not being as smart as private sector remember that there are JAG officers there too. I admitt I knew a few dimwits in the service most with only a GED but you have to pass the ASVAB with a decent scoreto get into harder jobs like the ones that they train you for a Huachuca. A lot of college grads cant do it. Its a fact. If I seem defensive of enlisted as an option it is becuase I am enlisted. I went in before college and got my first college credits in service. I got my associates degree on campus, but did my Bachelors degree online the way that a lot of military does it. I still passed the LSAT and got into lawschool.

I don't think you'll have much luck convincing people that enlisted kids have some innate intelligence that would shine through if they weren't so busy "saveing your pompous ass."  Much respect for those folks, but that's just not a realistic statement.  Your point, that A's at Harvard or C's at AMU (what's that?) lead to the same military rank and ability, is exactly my point--you don't need to be intelligent (in the reading & 'riting sense) to be enlisted in the Army.  And like all things, jobs that don't require intelligence don't attract high numbers of intelligent people.  This all excludes officers of course--although officers will tell you that West Point's SAT percentiles are so low because it admits enlisted men after a few years of service, which indirectly speaks to the point.


OP, yeah, lots of people are stuck in that rut.  There were two LR members at my T20 who graduated without jobs.  And everybody else is right; you've just got to pound the pavement.

[Sean1]

you are not alone. there are hundreds of law students who are currently studying for the bar, without jobs and with thousands of $ in debt. the few jobs went to students at the tier 1 schools. they are not feeling it like we are at the tier 2 schools. most of the student loans can be deferred until employment, luckily. hang in there and try not to think about anything but the bar exam for now. then in August, think about getting a part-time job while still looking for full-time legal work. i also wish there was some statistics showing the number of unemployed recent law grads.

[linquest]

OP- I emailed you some suggestions.

[LSDSL]

OP- I emailed you some suggestions.

PLS just post here.  I didn't get an email. 

[linquest]

Don't feel too bad.  There are tons of people in your situation, especially this year now that legal industry is in a tanker.  Right now, it doesn't help that so many law firms have been laying people off, so there are a lot of attorneys that have already been practicing that you are now competing against.  Beyond the firms (mostly Biglaw firms that are now in trouble) and government agencies (many now in hiring freezes) that hire well in advance, most legal employers prefer to interview people who have already passed the bar so they can start working right away.  I also have a friend who just got a job offer last week, so there's hope that you can interview and get a job while you're studying for the bar.

I know from personal experience that Chicago is a tough market to break into if you don't have connections.  At least you are from IL, so that will help show that you're not here on a whim besides the fact that you're taking the bar here.  Where did you do your legal internships?  Is there a particular type of law or practice setting that you are particularly interested in?  I might be able to give you some networking tips based on that. 

Have you already checked for alumni from your school in Chicago?  I know you went to school on the West Coast, but it's entirely possible that there are some out here (that's how I networked from my East Coast school).  Also, check out Kimm Walton's "Guerrilla Tactics: For Getting the Legal Job of Your Dreams", great book on job hunting.

[chevelle]

OP: I graduated top 10% from a T2, law firm jobs both summers (local midsize firm that only makes offers when it can...and decided not to in this economy), law review editorial board...I'm studying for the NY bar now. I have zero job prospects. I've tried everything...networking, hundreds of resumes sent out...career fairs at school where i talk to lawyers and their response is something like, "I wish I could help you. My firm's not hiring first year associates. But people should be begging to hire you." But I had one interview all year and the firm decided not to hire anyone.

It's real frustrating. I know a lot of others in my position. But I'm just trying to not get real upset (though I have my moments where I throw my Bar/Bri books down and ask what the point of all this is), pursue any lead I can, and I just study for the bar and figure when that's over I'll really do nothing else but look for a job.

I don't know if this makes you feel any better, but I hope it makes you realize you're not alone.

[Contract2008]

OP: I graduated top 10% from a T2

It's real frustrating. I know a lot of others in my position. But I'm just trying to not get real upset (though I have my moments where I throw my Bar/Bri books down and ask what the point of all this is), pursue any lead I can, and I just study for the bar and figure when that's over I'll really do nothing else but look for a job.

I don't know if this makes you feel any better, but I hope it makes you realize you're not alone.

How did you end up at top 10% and law review, but no offers? 

[chevelle]

OP: I graduated top 10% from a T2

It's real frustrating. I know a lot of others in my position. But I'm just trying to not get real upset (though I have my moments where I throw my Bar/Bri books down and ask what the point of all this is), pursue any lead I can, and I just study for the bar and figure when that's over I'll really do nothing else but look for a job.

I don't know if this makes you feel any better, but I hope it makes you realize you're not alone.

How did you end up at top 10% and law review, but no offers? 

My school has a terrible, terrible OCI. There aren't more than 30 or so firms that come, and the ones that say they want "top 10%" will really only interview the top 3% or so, and the firms that want, say, "top 25%" only interview people ranked in the top 15%-25%. I even contacted some of those firms directly and said I was interested, but they didn't offer me OCI interviews. I just got ignored. I sent stuff out on my own...nothing but rejection letters.

I was told that my rank put me in a weird place where I was not "good enough" for Biglaw but still "too good" for most local midsize firms. Quite a few people ranked around me experienced the same thing.

I took the job I had over the summer of 2008 back in late Fall 2007, and they made it sound like, if they had room, they gave offers...and they always seemed to have room. They did not give any summers offers this year, because of the economy. I feel like I really got screwed, because an offer was even hinted at late in the summer when I was working there.

I do feel like I've been ignored and turned away by many local firms that my school's OCS thinks should be begging to hire me, yet no one can tell me why. I showed a million lawyers my resume and they all say it's great. Admittedly, I might come off a little shy and quiet in interviews. But I hardly get interviews to begin with.

My background is in biology, and I even applied to a posting for a first year associate at a local IP firm that wanted science backgrounds. When I didn't hear anything, I contacted the firm's HR and they told me they "had no interest" in me. Ouch.