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Author Topic: The Senate Floor: Debate the Ban Process Here  (Read 43177 times)

Scentless Apprentice

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Re: The Senate Floor: Debate the Ban Process Here
« Reply #140 on: June 18, 2009, 11:48:04 PM »
While perhaps not ban-worthy, I've got no problem declaring behavior like SUCK's here actionable.  Griefing other posters by repeatedly antagonizing them with unsubstantiated accusations only detracts from the board.  I'd fully support warnings, and maybe eventual bannings after repeated warnings, for this kind of thing.

Now..think 'Getting to Maybe'. Do you think you could argue for how the above supports: "coming up with all kinds of conditions and scenarios to protect this little island from what they don't agree with or may consider annoying"
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Miss P

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Re: The Senate Floor: Debate the Ban Process Here
« Reply #141 on: June 19, 2009, 12:03:07 AM »
While perhaps not ban-worthy, I've got no problem declaring behavior like SUCK's here actionable.  Griefing other posters by repeatedly antagonizing them with unsubstantiated accusations only detracts from the board.  I'd fully support warnings, and maybe eventual bannings after repeated warnings, for this kind of thing.

Now..think 'Getting to Maybe'. Do you think you could argue for how the above supports: "coming up with all kinds of conditions and scenarios to protect this little island from what they don't agree with or may consider annoying"


I think it would be a difficult argument given (a) the purpose of this thread (issuing guidelines for the previously freewheeling moderator powers); (b) the fact that non parata est is arguing for warnings above those which are already given; and (c) the fact that non parata est is referring to "repeatedly antagonizing [posters] with unsubstantiated accusations," not to merely being annoying or disagreeable.  That said, I'm sure one person's antagonism and harassment is another person's annoying behavior.  I think it makes more sense to try to come up with standards for how to determine when a poster crosses the line than to pretend we're never going to ask our moderators to make these judgment calls. 
That's cool how you referenced a case.

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Scentless Apprentice

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Re: The Senate Floor: Debate the Ban Process Here
« Reply #142 on: June 19, 2009, 03:43:22 AM »
I agree with you. I should have worded it differently, rather than as some great argument. My claim was an attempt to express my thoughts after reading the thread.

It's like I'm trying to root for the underdog. To me, the underdog in this case is the idea that everything short of something illegal or broadly accepted as inapropriate, like sexual harassment, should be allowed. Everything except those narrow conditions. I think my push for this kind of relaxed constraint on the board is unfounded, and is proving to not be the vision that some of you have for this community.

The ONLY reason I posted in this thread was because I felt that someone was unfairly banned.

My mind instantly thought of all the ridiculous things I've seen posted, some of which I feel are wayyyy more serious and questionable than this thread, and nothing was ever done. That's why I thought of Cliff. This may explain, at least in part, my naive, laissez faire impression of the moderation on the board.

My vision of LSD was incorrect. Some of the posters on here are seriously concerned about any micommunications that may happen on the board, and any negative repercussions that may occur as a result - i.e., their advice not being taken seriously. I now understand that there are some users that have very important reputations to protect, and that is not something to be taken lightly.

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Matthies

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Re: The Senate Floor: Debate the Ban Process Here
« Reply #143 on: June 19, 2009, 10:21:01 AM »
On another note, I challenge everyone in this post mod or not, and all the veterans reading this to do a better job of welcoming new posters. We all have a tendency to skip posts that donít apply to us (like about schools we donít go to, or LSATs scores we did not get) but that does not mean you canít pop into a thread and just say ďwelcomeĒ or point a newb to a regular poster who could help them. Just because you donít personally have anything to add does not mean you canít be welcoming anyway.

Its also does not mean you canít say, as just a poster, cut it out, when some newbi is getting trashed because the only school he caught into was Cooley or something. There is a fine line between offer advice and just trashing, and the just trashing seems to take precedence here or is ignored by the regulars becuas it "does not apply to them" and the newbis leave LSD because they donít feel welcome. It applies to all of us becuase the more new posetrs we run off the fewer new ideas and prospctives we get. More people might stick around if more people just took a few seconds to pop in a newbi thread and say welcome or hereís a link to a thread that might help you. We, myself included, donít need to be an insular as we are on this board. New blood is good for everyone.
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

UnbiasedObserver

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Re: The Senate Floor: Debate the Ban Process Here
« Reply #144 on: June 19, 2009, 11:35:03 AM »
On another note, I challenge everyone in this post mod or not, and all the veterans reading this to do a better job of welcoming new posters. We all have a tendency to skip posts that donít apply to us (like about schools we donít go to, or LSATs scores we did not get) but that does not mean you canít pop into a thread and just say ďwelcomeĒ or point a newb to a regular poster who could help them. Just because you donít personally have anything to add does not mean you canít be welcoming anyway.

Its also does not mean you canít say, as just a poster, cut it out, when some newbi is getting trashed because the only school he caught into was Cooley or something. There is a fine line between offer advice and just trashing, and the just trashing seems to take precedence here or is ignored by the regulars becuas it "does not apply to them" and the newbis leave LSD because they donít feel welcome. It applies to all of us becuase the more new posetrs we run off the fewer new ideas and prospctives we get. More people might stick around if more people just took a few seconds to pop in a newbi thread and say welcome or hereís a link to a thread that might help you. We, myself included, donít need to be an insular as we are on this board. New blood is good for everyone.

I strongly agree with this post.  We all need to resolve this issue; this includes myself!

non parata est

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Re: The Senate Floor: Debate the Ban Process Here
« Reply #145 on: June 19, 2009, 12:08:08 PM »
On another note, I challenge everyone in this post mod or not, and all the veterans reading this to do a better job of welcoming new posters. We all have a tendency to skip posts that donít apply to us (like about schools we donít go to, or LSATs scores we did not get) but that does not mean you canít pop into a thread and just say ďwelcomeĒ or point a newb to a regular poster who could help them. Just because you donít personally have anything to add does not mean you canít be welcoming anyway.

Its also does not mean you canít say, as just a poster, cut it out, when some newbi is getting trashed because the only school he caught into was Cooley or something. There is a fine line between offer advice and just trashing, and the just trashing seems to take precedence here or is ignored by the regulars becuas it "does not apply to them" and the newbis leave LSD because they donít feel welcome. It applies to all of us becuase the more new posetrs we run off the fewer new ideas and prospctives we get. More people might stick around if more people just took a few seconds to pop in a newbi thread and say welcome or hereís a link to a thread that might help you. We, myself included, donít need to be an insular as we are on this board. New blood is good for everyone.

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Matthies

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Re: The Senate Floor: Debate the Ban Process Here
« Reply #146 on: June 19, 2009, 12:19:27 PM »
On another note, I challenge everyone in this post mod or not, and all the veterans reading this to do a better job of welcoming new posters. We all have a tendency to skip posts that donít apply to us (like about schools we donít go to, or LSATs scores we did not get) but that does not mean you canít pop into a thread and just say ďwelcomeĒ or point a newb to a regular poster who could help them. Just because you donít personally have anything to add does not mean you canít be welcoming anyway.

Its also does not mean you canít say, as just a poster, cut it out, when some newbi is getting trashed because the only school he caught into was Cooley or something. There is a fine line between offer advice and just trashing, and the just trashing seems to take precedence here or is ignored by the regulars becuas it "does not apply to them" and the newbis leave LSD because they donít feel welcome. It applies to all of us becuase the more new posetrs we run off the fewer new ideas and prospctives we get. More people might stick around if more people just took a few seconds to pop in a newbi thread and say welcome or hereís a link to a thread that might help you. We, myself included, donít need to be an insular as we are on this board. New blood is good for everyone.

This definitely requires a culture change, specifically in how we interact with new people and with each other. It certainly doesn't leave room to allow "everything short of something illegal or broadly accepted as inapropriate, like sexual harassment." This requires us to define exactly what kind of environment we want to build, including what is appropriate, what is not, and what should be done. It's also going to require more than one or two more mods to get it going. But I think it's a fantastic vision.

i agree, its going to take a sea chage in how we all act to new psoters, and what we are willing to let other posters, myself included, get away with before we step in and say you know what this is my community too and you don't need to be an hole here. Anyone can see the baord is dying compared to other LS baords, but compared to most we have far more law stundets and lawyers regualrly posting who can give solid advice. We just have to decide what type of commnuity we want to be, one populated by a core small group of posters that can sometimes be very snobish and unwelcoming, or more inviting of new posters and new ideas. The more people the community has the more view points and I think the more vaulbe a place it can be. If the graduating 3/4L's that post regualry stick around into pratice as some others have LSD can continue to be a gbreat resource, but we have to be more welcoming or people won't stay to become the next set of regualrs. The baord is dieing and all of us are at least a little to blame for that either directly or though in action I think.
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

ISUCKATTHIS

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Re: The Senate Floor: Debate the Ban Process Here
« Reply #147 on: June 19, 2009, 07:37:03 PM »
Okay, so two things (hopefully) before the hate patrol finds me again:

1)   Nothing I ever posted w/respect to the regulars on this board applies to Mathhies. 

I know that he is a regular, but my experience indicates that he is not a typical one for this board.  Heís able to provide thoughtful comments/arguments  and heís civil even in disagreement.  I seriously doubt heíd ever call in reinforcements even if he were losing an argument and I highly doubt that heís ever reported any one to a moderator, much less done so simply because of a disagreement or clash of perspective.

2)   for scentless:  there are plenty of other law school related sites that lack this culture of exclusion and intolerance.  Here is one where I've found the natives to be friendlier, less of these social shenanigans and where you can get pretty good/honest advice:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/index.php

It also seems like people over there are mostly interested in trading information and advice as opposed to forming social networks.  I doubt youíll find any who take posting so seriously as to become convinced that their online and real life personas have interchanged and who canít handle any challenges to the former.

Matthies

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Re: The Senate Floor: Debate the Ban Process Here
« Reply #148 on: June 19, 2009, 09:01:26 PM »
Okay, so two things (hopefully) before the hate patrol finds me again:

1)   Nothing I ever posted w/respect to the regulars on this board applies to Mathhies. 

I know that he is a regular, but my experience indicates that he is not a typical one for this board.  Heís able to provide thoughtful comments/arguments  and heís civil even in disagreement.  I seriously doubt heíd ever call in reinforcements even if he were losing an argument and I highly doubt that heís ever reported any one to a moderator, much less done so simply because of a disagreement or clash of perspective.



Thank you for the kind words. Your right, in all the time I have been here I have never reported someone to the mods. Not because I have not seen some posters that have done/said some *&^% that I vehemently believe was/is bannable. I mean people like Lindberg come to mind. But I havenít personally reported anyone for two very specific reasons. First I live in a glass house and I am the last person who needs to be throwing stones. I have said some pretty off color stuff on here, and sometimes my sarcasm can be downright offensive, especially if I donít do a good job making it very clear Iím joking. Even then I have offended some folks, hell some folks I tend to offend on a regular basis. And to be honest its bothers me when something I say jokingly hurts someone else on here, to the point that I think about it offline and try my best to make amends to whomever I offended through PMs. So I guess I just donít feel sin free enough to cast a stone at another poster.

But, and more importantly for this conversation, I know I donít have to. I know there are posters like Miss P and others who will step up and report things that need to be reported. Its because of people like that taking their time to keep this place civil that we are much better off than of the days of the likes of Downy and Lindberg and their ilk. Because other people step up when needed I can just ride their coattails. A lot of us do. We are better off as a community I think when we have a few mother hens watching over the flock so the rest of us can not take any responsibility yet enjoy a Downy free posting environment.

All that being said, I have known Miss. P for a long time, on this board and in alternate forums. Never once, ever has she called on me or anyone else I know of to fight a fight for her. Ever. Period. Its really just not her style, she can take care of herself, Iíve seen it plenty of times. If she ever did I would come running, but itís just never happened in all the years I have been here.

That does not mean you donít have a perfectly genuine argument you could make based on some of the facts surrounding the situation that it is otherwise. I can see your side of the story/issue, but I got say from the outside looking in, knowing what I know of the players involved, I just donít see it with the clarity and conviction your raising. It just does not pass the smell test knowing what I know of Miss P.

It seems to me a clearer case of things getting misconstrued on a message board, tempers flaring up, and things getting escalated beyond what is the actual intents of the parties. We all would be better off if you two could just agree to disagree yet still respect each other as posters. You both offer a lot and needed personal experiences to make this place a better board. I donít think people are out to get you, or run you off the board, like Iíve said you have made some good contributions in the past. I think all of us would just like to see everyone move on if we can so you guys are not both spending your energies taking swipes at each other instead posting helpful advice from your own personal experiences.
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

UnbiasedObserver

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Re: The Senate Floor: Debate the Ban Process Here
« Reply #149 on: June 19, 2009, 11:06:13 PM »
It seems to me a clearer case of things getting misconstrued on a message board, tempers flaring up, and things getting escalated beyond what is the actual intents of the parties. We all would be better off if you two could just agree to disagree yet still respect each other as posters. You both offer a lot and needed personal experiences to make this place a better board. I donít think people are out to get you, or run you off the board, like Iíve said you have made some good contributions in the past. I think all of us would just like to see everyone move on if we can so you guys are not both spending your energies taking swipes at each other instead posting helpful advice from your own personal experiences.

Yes!  Let's not hold grudges here--and continue to keep two posters on this forum!  :)