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Author Topic: Summer conditional program  (Read 13002 times)

TheDudeMan

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Re: Summer conditional program
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2009, 09:39:07 AM »
"That person just may end up in law school and possibly surpassing you as an attorney!"

Followed by: "Biglaw is pretty much out of reach for a lot of non T14 graduates."


So I'm just curious.  How do you expect someone who will never get to Biglaw in the first place to surpass someone going right into Biglaw out of law school?

I'm giving you a hard time, so don't get all defensive ;).

Regardless, I don't "care" what the OP does, but I'm shooting it straight.  I'll agree with SASS in that I can be abrasive on these forums when I dole out advice.  However, it's been my experience that too many people get coddled into the legal profession. 

The OP may THINK he wants to be a lawyer now.  He should seriously consider whether he would still feel that way if he graduated from a second rate school, with limited job prospects, and possibly mounds of debt.

Not to mention the fact that once one matriculates they quickly learn that legal practice is nothing like the general public presumes.

SASS

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Re: Summer conditional program
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2009, 06:53:09 PM »
We all know the truth hurts sometimes.  While dudeman maybe could have been less abrasive, he is correct. A minority of students that go to the cash cow schools will end up with respectable jobs. Most will have a hard time getting a job, paying off loans, or moving to different regions. I also agree that the LSAT is by no means a good system, but it is the only one we have.

OP- If you really want to attend law school, don't waste your money on a summer conditional admission. Take an LSAT class and retake the LSAT and get into a respectable school.  While the LSAT sucks, at least it is a completely learnable test. I hate to see these schools sucking money out of people, something should be done about it.

SASS, I agree with you to an extent.  Biglaw is pretty much out of reach for a lot of non T14 graduates.  What people need to realize is that not everyone goes to law school in the hopes of going to BIGLAW.  Some may have a desire to solely go JAG or work in non profit or even start their own practice.  And some of those individuals may also be bound to their local community due to their jobs, families, etc and the only available law school is perhaps a Tier 3/4 school. 

All I'm saying is that we shouldn't paint all perspective law students under a broad brush. 

OP, I really would encourage you to try an get an acceptance into a law school.  But if the summer admission program is your best chance then I would caution you on this.  One thing they don't tell you is that if you don't make it through their program then it can hurt you for future applications should you apply to law school again.

Sure, not everyone wants big law.  That is a given, which is why I said "respectable" jobs. Non-profit jobs are not easy to land. Thinking you can attend some T4 and land a non-profit job is flawed. Solo practices are risky, for a variety of reasons and most start after they have been trained somewhere else. I don't know much about JAG, so I won't comment about its requirements.

I am not trying to paint all law students under a broad brush, simply that one should realize the substantial risk involved in attending a T4. Namely, not all doors are open.

USAFVETERAN

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Re: Summer conditional program
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2009, 12:26:49 AM »
Sure, not everyone wants big law.  That is a given, which is why I said "respectable" jobs. Non-profit jobs are not easy to land. Thinking you can attend some T4 and land a non-profit job is flawed. Solo practices are risky, for a variety of reasons and most start after they have been trained somewhere else. I don't know much about JAG, so I won't comment about its requirements.

I am not trying to paint all law students under a broad brush, simply that one should realize the substantial risk involved in attending a T4. Namely, not all doors are open.
[/quote]

Thinking that you cannot land A JOB coming from a T4 is what's FLAWED. Outside of the top 14 it becomes more of who you know.  THAT is a fact of life.  Even THEDUDE can attest that his future job is based MORE on the fact that he knows people in THAT particular industry than you and I.  If we all went for his prospect position HE would get a better look based on the fact that they are FAMILIAR with HIM not the school he went to.  Even if you went to a better RANKED school THEDUDE will get a better look.  THAT IS LIFE. LIFE AINT FAIR.  This qualifies the fact that just because you go to a T4 school does not necessarily mean that you are destined for less than!!! Solo practitioner is risky, buy maybe you're not an entrepreneur.  RISK is a part of life!!! A school does not define a person...well maybe your school defines you.  That is not true for everyone.RISK is a part of life!!! A school does not define a person...well maybe your school defines you.  That is not true for everyone.

TheDudeMan

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Re: Summer conditional program
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2009, 11:40:42 AM »
Actually I didn't know anybody at the firm I'm going to prior to OCI last year.  It's a NY mega firm and I've never lived in NY.  The reality is that higher ranked schools pull more law firms.  The Biglaw firms don't go to Tier 4 schools, while there are hundreds of on campus interviews at better ranked schools such as mine (and even more so at places within the T14).

I hate to break it to you, but in Biglaw, who you know rarely matters.  They are grade/prestige crazy, much like law schools are LSAT/GPA crazy.  Most firms recruit from the same schools year-in and year-out.  Biglaw lawyers are averse to risk and they stick with what they know.

t's obvious you have no understanding of Biglaw and have a huge chip on your shoulder.  Either you attend a lower ranked school, or you haven't matriculated yet and want to believe you can write your own ticket, regardless of where you go.

Good luck to you. 

attycollins

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Re: Summer conditional program
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2010, 10:50:22 AM »
if you have the opportunity to attend a law school through a conditional program, take it. SOme people thnk that if you dont go to harvard you shouldn't go to law school but trust, if they accept you, take advantge. I scored low on the lsat but was accepted to some great T1 schools, T2 schools and even T3 schools. I attended a conditional program for the summer just to sort f get myself started in the swing of things, i was acceptd into the law school, graduated at the top of my class and make well over 6figures now. it is possible as one f my friends who scored etter than me on the lsat makes exponentially less than myself. If you get accepted of course your worthy of going and becoming an attorney. I came from poverty and both my parents have 3rd grade educations. from poverty to plight, i suceeded.. God gives you the recipe for your blessings, not someone elses..you go to the program and hit the grond running once you get admited for fall..
Good Luck

chucktduck

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Re: Summer conditional program
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2014, 07:24:11 AM »
I realize that it has been about five years since this topic was first posted but I felt a need to respond.

First of all, Never let anyone step on your dream of becoming a lawyer. I find it appalling that there are people who under the guise of "being helpful but realistic" are instead being just the opposite by posting really rude, condescending, disrespectful and unhelpful things. You can be realistic and helpful without being a jerk. I too am realistic but unlike others on this website (and others that I've read) prefer to be positive and encouraging while remaining realistic.

Here's the deal;

If you graduate from a 4th tier  law school, the best that you can hope for is getting hired at a top firm in the city where the law school is located. However, unless you graduate at or near the top of your class, this option will likely not be available to you. In this case, the best you could hope for is getting on with a small or midsized firm once again in the city where the law school is located. Others may also decide to put up their own shingle and start their own solo practice. Even in these instances a career in Biglaw is still a remote possibility.  Doing a lateral transfer to a BIGLAW firm would mean acquiring several years of experience and building a really good reputation. It would also mean doing some serious networking along the way.

Now to address the 800 lb gorilla in the room;

Law school is an expensive undertaking. When all is said and done you are likely to accumulate $120,000+ in non-dischargeable debt. There's no way around it. This money MUST be repaid and Uncle Sugar is going to get What's his no matter what! That being said there are options available to repay at a reasonable rate. If you do Public interest law for a certain number of years you can have all or most of your student loan debt erased. You can also opt to repay your loan as a percentage of your income. By law you can't be forced to pay more that 15% of your income towards your student loans under this option. Finally if you make steady and on time payments for at least 10 or 15 years you can request to have the remaining balance of your loans written off. So you have options. Don't listen to anyone who says otherwise.

If the only law school you could get accepted into is a 4th tier school then go with it. You have no other choice at this point. Work hard to get good grades your first year and transfer to a higher ranked school. If accepted into a higher ranked school then by all means transfer no matter what the other school offers, (scholarship, law review etc.) Transfer! Look into taking the law preview course  http://www.lawpreview.com/ so that you can be as prepared as possible when you start and have a leg up on your competition.

In the end, nothing in life is guaranteed. I think everyone knows that. But its always best to go in with eyes wide open and armed with as much information as possible. Good luck to you and everyone else (including my self). And when you're successful, track down all the naysayers here and let them know.

Citylaw

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Re: Summer conditional program
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2014, 07:59:27 PM »
I think the majority of posters on this board now are quite supportive. I agree with everything you said in your post and at the end of the day if a law school gives you a bar exam ticket you can pass the bar become a lawyer and succeed.

Obviously, Harvard will open more doors than Cooley, but there are graduates from Harvard that never passed the bar or were disbarred and there are Superlawyers from Cooley.

Whether you succeed in the legal profession has a lot more to do with you than the name of your law school.

Miami88

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Re: Summer conditional program
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2014, 09:09:53 PM »
To echo what citylaw said, it seems like the majority of the posters that are on here NOW are very supportive. There are the occasional trolls, but they add a bit of spice to LSD. :) haha

CA Law Dean

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Re: Summer conditional program
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2014, 11:59:50 AM »
Since this topic revived, I might provide an update to the original discussion of summer conditional programs. Our school (Monterey College of Law) started a conditional summer course about six years ago. It was originally an alternative way to evaluate low UGPA and/or low LSAT with our own assessments over a ten session course. We also added a heavy dose of pre-1L prep, such as time management, study skills, stress management, etc.

Fast forward to the present and the course has such a good reputation and is so popular that 80% of the entering class chooses to take it even if they are not conditionally admitted through the program. It is not only because we can demonstrate a noticeable improvement in first semester grades for those who took the course, but the improved emotional balance (stress level) and engagement during the first semester for those who participated. The first year faculty have noted a positive difference as well. We actually added a short session on meditation and hypnotism (I am not kidding) as a possible answer for test anxiety. It was surprisingly popular and several students reported that it made a difference for midterms.
Monterey College of Law
www.montereylaw.edu