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What law school is harder? Cooley or Whittier? They both accept law students without a bachelors degree.

Cooley
 5 (45.5%)
Whittier
 6 (54.5%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: June 06, 2009, 08:21:39 PM

Author Topic: Cooley or Whittier?  (Read 8290 times)

dashrashi

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Re: Cooley or Whittier?
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2009, 01:50:54 PM »
I mean, what I'm getting from you, ctl, is that you haven't heard about the same situations I have. It was something like the guy being a credit short, having a job lined up through previous connections/jobs, all that he needed was a JD from somewhere, but it would have cost him a bunch of money he didn't have, and made him uproot his family, in order to get that last credit. I think he had something like a 165 (I could be pretty off on this, though, but it was a solidly good score) and had, I think, a scholarship from Cooley. I think he was possibly from Lansing, and planning to stay there, also.

So I disagree about the safety of your assumptions. This guy didn't sound like 1800-RV-ATTY-7, despite not having a bachelor's, and it didn't really seem to make sense in his situation. Also, nealric just assumed that the guy's LSAT score wasn't good, without any reason to think that. So why recommend spending a year prepping for the LSAT? Hell, maybe the OP already did, reaped the benefits, but still doesn't quite have that BA sealed up?

I don't know. Obviously, it's a rare situation, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. And given the history (see generally Matthies) of the profession, I'm not too inclined to cast aspersions on people limited in their options in this particular way.

Telling the OP to "aim high" might not really be applicable--these might just be it for him and other options really are just not feasible. So maybe more options might be nice in some hypothetical world, but that doesn't make this some unbridled mistake, necessarily. All I'm saying.
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futurelawyergal

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Re: Cooley or Whittier?
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2009, 02:02:22 PM »
To answer your original question: If you are decided between the two I would pick Whittier. It is in California which has clearly better weather than Michigan. Nationally, it has a better reputation out of the two (in my humble opinion). Granted I am from the East Coast but Cooley typically gets joked about a lot...Whittier isn't usually the 1st choice when someone is cracking a law school joke. Just my opinion. Best of luck!

CTL

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Re: Cooley or Whittier?
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2009, 02:17:19 PM »
I mean, what I'm getting from you, ctl, is that you haven't heard about the same situations I have. It was something like the guy being a credit short, having a job lined up through previous connections/jobs, all that he needed was a JD from somewhere, but it would have cost him a bunch of money he didn't have, and made him uproot his family, in order to get that last credit. I think he had something like a 165 (I could be pretty off on this, though, but it was a solidly good score) and had, I think, a scholarship from Cooley. I think he was possibly from Lansing, and planning to stay there, also.

So I disagree about the safety of your assumptions. This guy didn't sound like 1800-RV-ATTY-7, despite not having a bachelor's, and it didn't really seem to make sense in his situation. Also, nealric just assumed that the guy's LSAT score wasn't good, without any reason to think that. So why recommend spending a year prepping for the LSAT? Hell, maybe the OP already did, reaped the benefits, but still doesn't quite have that BA sealed up?

I don't know. Obviously, it's a rare situation, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. And given the history (see generally Matthies) of the profession, I'm not too inclined to cast aspersions on people limited in their options in this particular way.

Telling the OP to "aim high" might not really be applicable--these might just be it for him and other options really are just not feasible. So maybe more options might be nice in some hypothetical world, but that doesn't make this some unbridled mistake, necessarily. All I'm saying.

Fair enough.  I guess I was just thinking (perhaps without warrant) that the OP really doesn't have many options and is not in a similar situation to the poster you referenced.  I mean, he/she is asking about Cooley and Whittier.  They are in two geographically distinct markets/areas, and have little in common other than their status as unselective lawyer factories.  The OP just asked which is 'harder', which really is probably just a flame question anyway.

Anyway, you make a good point.  There are some legitimate reasons why one would attend either school, but I guess I'm more cynical about this poster.  Too much LSD makes CTL a snarky boy...
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Matthies

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Re: Cooley or Whittier?
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2009, 02:22:17 PM »
I don't think we need to fall victim to relativism though.  There are some suggestions that are wise.  GENERALLY, I believe that having more options is much more valuable than having fewer options, which is why I think it is sage advice to tell someone to aim high when applying to law schools.

Well I look at it like this. I donít even know where Whitter is. The common wisdom is thought that if you go there your screwed. Ok, fine, but where is this common wisdom coming from? People who go to Whitter or Cooley or Idaho or South Dakota or some other T4? No, its not. Too bad we donít have more posters on here from T4 schools to give us first hand experiences. But we donít maybe because if we did all their threads would turn into three pages of everyone telling them how much they suck and they would leave and never come back.

We have a lot of posters from T2 schools and above and at least one from everyone of the top 14 schools (some have many posters). But as far as I know, no one who actually goes to Whitter or Cooley. Like I said, I donít even know where Whitter is. So Iíll save my judgment on the schools and ones prospects.

We can I think generally agree that going to a T4 school puts you at a disadvantage over going to a higher ranked school. I donít think itís as cut and dried as many make it out to be however, epically when your talking local schools. Why do I believe that, not because anyone told me, but simply because thatís been my own personal experience. I mean I had a lot of people tell me how hard it was going to be finding a job going to a T2 school. Well for me that has not been the case at all.

My point is yes there is common wisdom, but at what point to we take someone elseís opinion to be fact that has not had any personal experience whith the subject he speaks with authority on? My cousins, brotherís dog groomer went there so I know everything about it? I mean does anyone here bashing this kid go to a T4? Has anyone here tried to get a job from Whitter, graduated from there, looked for jobs in Orange County? No. Instead we have people who donít go to these schools and places like JD Underground again full of people who did not go to these schools telling people as if its fact what will happen to them if they go to these schools.

Hell I have enough problems telling what my future will be in 30 mins, much less someone elseís who I have never met, who is a different situation than me, whoís going to a school I have never heard of, in market Iíve never even been to what their life is going to be like in 3+ years. I guess I tend to defer  and prefer to hear it from the horseís mouth than just chalk everything up to common wisdom.
 
Common wisdom would have said: A) Iíd never get into a law school, B- I would never make through law school, C- I would graduate at the bottom of my class, D- I would never get a job from my law school. If I had listen to common wisdom I would have made some really dumb decisions for myself based on what people who are not me, not in my position told me life would be like. Iím pretty glad at this point I did not listen to them. Maybe Whitter is full of people who wished they listened to the common wisdom and did not go there, I dunno, but I bet there are at least some folks who went there and reached their personal goals. I for one am in no position to be casting the first stone however, so I wonít tell other people what their life is going to be like when I canít even control my own.

I wish we had more students from T4 schools so would could actually here first had experiences, but I can see why, with thread like this, they donít stick around log to share their experiences.   
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

Matthies

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Re: Cooley or Whittier?
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2009, 02:26:58 PM »
Wow what a coindince I just got an e-mail saying our former dean of students is leaving to become dean of Whitter (I do know its in CA now). So there I have a personal connection to the school so I can predict everyoneís future who goes there now. Ask away.

PS. She was a great Dean here, so I bet she will be a good dean there.


<--- expert on Whitter now
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

CTL

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Re: Cooley or Whittier?
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2009, 02:39:59 PM »
Fair enough, Matthies.  I understand your perspective, but I'm not posting just to bash someone.  I generally think LSD serves to bring a dose of reality to many posters who have barely researched the legal profession, law schools, and their odds at getting from point A to point B.  After lurking around here for a year I realized that it might be wise to try to increase my LSAT score.  That decision ended up paying off huge for me, so I feel somewhat indebted to the board. 

I can be too snarky from time to time, but I think it's better to have balanced doses of reality than unconditional support (at least on forums like this).  Sure, xoxo and JDU are pretty much useless and ugly, but LSD tends to balance humor/fun with often sound advice.  I'm glad you present a different picture than the T14orbust crowd (which I can be a part of).  It definitely helps balance out the board.  At the same time, I think there is utility in the common assumptions of the T14orbust crowd: 'the more options you have, the better...the more competitive school, the better...the stronger alumni network, the better...'  All the viewpoints can be helpful when measured by different perspectives.
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nealric

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Re: Cooley or Whittier?
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2009, 06:40:30 PM »
Quote
Also, nealric just assumed that the guy's LSAT score wasn't good

The LSAT thing was really more in response to a previous poster who brought up LSAT based elitism. The comment was more general to someone deciding between a school like Cooley and Whittier. However, I think it was a relatively safe assumption. First, Cooley gives an auto-full ride for a 163- which probably would have been mentioned in the post. If the OP was deciding between Cooley and Whittier, they aren't looking at Cooley because of geographic ties. As Matthies pointed out, there are much better schools (i.e. Tulane) that would accept someone without an undergrad degree. I also meant the comment as a general one that it's better to do work up front and get into a school that will allow you to do less work later to get to where you want to be.

 
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SweetAsCandy

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Re: Cooley or Whittier?
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2009, 07:13:19 PM »
I don't think we need to fall victim to relativism though.  There are some suggestions that are wise.  GENERALLY, I believe that having more options is much more valuable than having fewer options, which is why I think it is sage advice to tell someone to aim high when applying to law schools.

Well I look at it like this. I donít even know where Whitter is. The common wisdom is thought that if you go there your screwed. Ok, fine, but where is this common wisdom coming from? People who go to Whitter or Cooley or Idaho or South Dakota or some other T4? No, its not. Too bad we donít have more posters on here from T4 schools to give us first hand experiences. But we donít maybe because if we did all their threads would turn into three pages of everyone telling them how much they suck and they would leave and never come back.

We have a lot of posters from T2 schools and above and at least one from everyone of the top 14 schools (some have many posters). But as far as I know, no one who actually goes to Whitter or Cooley. Like I said, I donít even know where Whitter is. So Iíll save my judgment on the schools and ones prospects.

We can I think generally agree that going to a T4 school puts you at a disadvantage over going to a higher ranked school. I donít think itís as cut and dried as many make it out to be however, epically when your talking local schools. Why do I believe that, not because anyone told me, but simply because thatís been my own personal experience. I mean I had a lot of people tell me how hard it was going to be finding a job going to a T2 school. Well for me that has not been the case at all.

My point is yes there is common wisdom, but at what point to we take someone elseís opinion to be fact that has not had any personal experience whith the subject he speaks with authority on? My cousins, brotherís dog groomer went there so I know everything about it? I mean does anyone here bashing this kid go to a T4? Has anyone here tried to get a job from Whitter, graduated from there, looked for jobs in Orange County? No. Instead we have people who donít go to these schools and places like JD Underground again full of people who did not go to these schools telling people as if its fact what will happen to them if they go to these schools.

Hell I have enough problems telling what my future will be in 30 mins, much less someone elseís who I have never met, who is a different situation than me, whoís going to a school I have never heard of, in market Iíve never even been to what their life is going to be like in 3+ years. I guess I tend to defer  and prefer to hear it from the horseís mouth than just chalk everything up to common wisdom.
 
Common wisdom would have said: A) Iíd never get into a law school, B- I would never make through law school, C- I would graduate at the bottom of my class, D- I would never get a job from my law school. If I had listen to common wisdom I would have made some really dumb decisions for myself based on what people who are not me, not in my position told me life would be like. Iím pretty glad at this point I did not listen to them. Maybe Whitter is full of people who wished they listened to the common wisdom and did not go there, I dunno, but I bet there are at least some folks who went there and reached their personal goals. I for one am in no position to be casting the first stone however, so I wonít tell other people what their life is going to be like when I canít even control my own.

I wish we had more students from T4 schools so would could actually here first had experiences, but I can see why, with thread like this, they donít stick around log to share their experiences.   



OMG.
Matthies.
You are seriously my favorite person on these boards.

When you graduate, please lemme know your contact info, because I want YOU to be MY lawyer. haha.
Seriously.
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Matthies

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Re: Cooley or Whittier?
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2009, 10:01:03 AM »
I don't think we need to fall victim to relativism though.  There are some suggestions that are wise.  GENERALLY, I believe that having more options is much more valuable than having fewer options, which is why I think it is sage advice to tell someone to aim high when applying to law schools.

Well I look at it like this. I donít even know where Whitter is. The common wisdom is thought that if you go there your screwed. Ok, fine, but where is this common wisdom coming from? People who go to Whitter or Cooley or Idaho or South Dakota or some other T4? No, its not. Too bad we donít have more posters on here from T4 schools to give us first hand experiences. But we donít maybe because if we did all their threads would turn into three pages of everyone telling them how much they suck and they would leave and never come back.

We have a lot of posters from T2 schools and above and at least one from everyone of the top 14 schools (some have many posters). But as far as I know, no one who actually goes to Whitter or Cooley. Like I said, I donít even know where Whitter is. So Iíll save my judgment on the schools and ones prospects.

We can I think generally agree that going to a T4 school puts you at a disadvantage over going to a higher ranked school. I donít think itís as cut and dried as many make it out to be however, epically when your talking local schools. Why do I believe that, not because anyone told me, but simply because thatís been my own personal experience. I mean I had a lot of people tell me how hard it was going to be finding a job going to a T2 school. Well for me that has not been the case at all.

My point is yes there is common wisdom, but at what point to we take someone elseís opinion to be fact that has not had any personal experience whith the subject he speaks with authority on? My cousins, brotherís dog groomer went there so I know everything about it? I mean does anyone here bashing this kid go to a T4? Has anyone here tried to get a job from Whitter, graduated from there, looked for jobs in Orange County? No. Instead we have people who donít go to these schools and places like JD Underground again full of people who did not go to these schools telling people as if its fact what will happen to them if they go to these schools.

Hell I have enough problems telling what my future will be in 30 mins, much less someone elseís who I have never met, who is a different situation than me, whoís going to a school I have never heard of, in market Iíve never even been to what their life is going to be like in 3+ years. I guess I tend to defer  and prefer to hear it from the horseís mouth than just chalk everything up to common wisdom.
 
Common wisdom would have said: A) Iíd never get into a law school, B- I would never make through law school, C- I would graduate at the bottom of my class, D- I would never get a job from my law school. If I had listen to common wisdom I would have made some really dumb decisions for myself based on what people who are not me, not in my position told me life would be like. Iím pretty glad at this point I did not listen to them. Maybe Whitter is full of people who wished they listened to the common wisdom and did not go there, I dunno, but I bet there are at least some folks who went there and reached their personal goals. I for one am in no position to be casting the first stone however, so I wonít tell other people what their life is going to be like when I canít even control my own.

I wish we had more students from T4 schools so would could actually here first had experiences, but I can see why, with thread like this, they donít stick around log to share their experiences.   



OMG.
Matthies.
You are seriously my favorite person on these boards.

When you graduate, please lemme know your contact info, because I want YOU to be MY lawyer. haha.
Seriously.

LOL thanks!
*In clinical studies, Matthies was well tolerated, but women who are pregnant, nursing or might become pregnant should not take or handle Matthies due to a rare, but serious side effect called him having to make child support payments.

Good Teacher

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Re: Cooley or Whittier?
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2009, 06:39:04 PM »
I don't think we need to fall victim to relativism though.  There are some suggestions that are wise.  GENERALLY, I believe that having more options is much more valuable than having fewer options, which is why I think it is sage advice to tell someone to aim high when applying to law schools.

Well I look at it like this. I donít even know where Whitter is. The common wisdom is thought that if you go there your screwed. Ok, fine, but where is this common wisdom coming from? People who go to Whitter or Cooley or Idaho or South Dakota or some other T4? No, its not. Too bad we donít have more posters on here from T4 schools to give us first hand experiences. But we donít maybe because if we did all their threads would turn into three pages of everyone telling them how much they suck and they would leave and never come back.

We have a lot of posters from T2 schools and above and at least one from everyone of the top 14 schools (some have many posters). But as far as I know, no one who actually goes to Whitter or Cooley. Like I said, I donít even know where Whitter is. So Iíll save my judgment on the schools and ones prospects.

We can I think generally agree that going to a T4 school puts you at a disadvantage over going to a higher ranked school. I donít think itís as cut and dried as many make it out to be however, epically when your talking local schools. Why do I believe that, not because anyone told me, but simply because thatís been my own personal experience. I mean I had a lot of people tell me how hard it was going to be finding a job going to a T2 school. Well for me that has not been the case at all.

My point is yes there is common wisdom, but at what point to we take someone elseís opinion to be fact that has not had any personal experience whith the subject he speaks with authority on? My cousins, brotherís dog groomer went there so I know everything about it? I mean does anyone here bashing this kid go to a T4? Has anyone here tried to get a job from Whitter, graduated from there, looked for jobs in Orange County? No. Instead we have people who donít go to these schools and places like JD Underground again full of people who did not go to these schools telling people as if its fact what will happen to them if they go to these schools.

Hell I have enough problems telling what my future will be in 30 mins, much less someone elseís who I have never met, who is a different situation than me, whoís going to a school I have never heard of, in market Iíve never even been to what their life is going to be like in 3+ years. I guess I tend to defer  and prefer to hear it from the horseís mouth than just chalk everything up to common wisdom.
 
Common wisdom would have said: A) Iíd never get into a law school, B- I would never make through law school, C- I would graduate at the bottom of my class, D- I would never get a job from my law school. If I had listen to common wisdom I would have made some really dumb decisions for myself based on what people who are not me, not in my position told me life would be like. Iím pretty glad at this point I did not listen to them. Maybe Whitter is full of people who wished they listened to the common wisdom and did not go there, I dunno, but I bet there are at least some folks who went there and reached their personal goals. I for one am in no position to be casting the first stone however, so I wonít tell other people what their life is going to be like when I canít even control my own.

I wish we had more students from T4 schools so would could actually here first had experiences, but I can see why, with thread like this, they donít stick around log to share their experiences.   



OMG.
Matthies.
You are seriously my favorite person on these boards.

When you graduate, please lemme know your contact info, because I want YOU to be MY lawyer. haha.
Seriously.

I agree.  Matthies is quite the wise one.  I think "mature and experienced" is also a great way to describe this gent. :-)
"A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone." Henry David Thoreau