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Author Topic: Dumb things that we said as 0L's  (Read 8435 times)

Matthies

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Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2009, 09:53:40 AM »
what happen at meeting of anorexic society?

I brought my own pizza and did not share
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Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2009, 10:47:20 AM »
Oh sounds like very interesting. I am jealous, but glad for you lol. I skimmed over Plant Law School II, it seemed like some parts were too early to read as an OL. I read some parts of getting to maybe, and book is more helpful I think. Over here, they are making us read this book called "Expert Learning" and I think that was the best out of all of them. If you ever want to share your book title let us know and Ima try to check it out, but im sure you probably want to stay anonymous since you have a lot of posts in here and got knows what outlandish said somewhere like 1000 post ago lol
Eh, don't be jealous yet- it aint out yet and there's a major hold up since I feel weird about advising folks to prepare during the summer. If I did "sell out" (no pun intended) it would have been in bookstores already. Yeah once it drops, I certainly will come to the board and tell folks the title and to run out and buy 10 copies each on the BLSDB-love tip!  ;)
I do agree with you that Planet law school does talk about some things that are too early for a 0L as it goes into what goes down as a 2L and 3L.  My book centers on 1L and is written primarily for 1Ls and 0Ls. 
 Haven't read "Expert Learning" myself but it looked interesting. Have you heard of LEEWS (Legal Essay Exam Writing System) by Wentworth Miller - it's a primer book and CDs/live program.


Quote
but im sure you probably want to stay anonymous since you have a lot of posts in here and got knows what outlandish said somewhere like 1000 post ago lol
?
My anonymity isn't exactly to protect me but to protect individuals/ institutions/organizations that I would otherwise be putting on blast just by association.   :-X   

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Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2009, 04:27:57 PM »
Eh, don't be jealous yet- it aint out yet and there's a major hold up since I feel weird about advising folks to prepare during the summer. If I did "sell out" (no pun intended) it would have been in bookstores already. Yeah once it drops, I certainly will come to the board and tell folks the title and to run out and buy 10 copies each on the BLSDB-love tip!  ;)
I do agree with you that Planet law school does talk about some things that are too early for a 0L as it goes into what goes down as a 2L and 3L.  My book centers on 1L and is written primarily for 1Ls and 0Ls. 
 Haven't read "Expert Learning" myself but it looked interesting. Have you heard of LEEWS (Legal Essay Exam Writing System) by Wentworth Miller - it's a primer book and CDs/live program.

Yea Expert Learning is great in my opinion. Who knew all A students weren't born a genious lol. As far as preping for the summer, I am obviously an 0L and dont have much authority to make statements like this, but when I first started everyone told me there is nothing you can do to prep for school in the summer. But now after going half way through this program, I will have to say I have to disagree. I am only half way done and I am already learning how to brief cases; spot issues; synthesize cases; learning how to utilize lexis and westlaw; writing legal memos; taking hypo exams and evaluating the answers and etc. I just dont know how that can not be considered a MAJOR advantage over some one who did not have some idea of these things on day one. But who knwos maybe this looking back this will be one of my dumb thing I said as an 0L

Get the book out, stop trying to hold out on us 0L's out there, its def good to hear you are actually focusing on 0Ls and 1Ls. And I see your point on the anonymus tip, Lord knows wuteva organization I end up associating with will want to clear themselves of my off the record comments.

I havent heard of LEEWS. This guy named Micheal Shwarts came in and did some presentation on IRAC methods and some speaker came in and gave us a program called ASPHEN LAW (I dont know if you heard of it) and it was really helpful with exam taking. What is it? it sounds interesting? or do I have to buy your book first? lol


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TruOne

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Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2009, 05:57:17 PM »

Yea Expert Learning is great in my opinion. Who knew all A students weren't born a genious lol. As far as preping for the summer, I am obviously an 0L and dont have much authority to make statements like this, but when I first started everyone told me there is nothing you can do to prep for school in the summer. But now after going half way through this program, I will have to say I have to disagree. I am only half way done and I am already learning how to brief cases; spot issues; synthesize cases; learning how to utilize lexis and westlaw; writing legal memos; taking hypo exams and evaluating the answers and etc. I just dont know how that can not be considered a MAJOR advantage over some one who did not have some idea of these things on day one. But who knwos maybe this looking back this will be one of my dumb thing I said as an 0L

When people say that you can't prepare for Law School as a 0L, they mean that you can't do anything during the summer that will give you an advantage over your classmates during the summer.

By the time you get to exams in December, EVERYBODY will know how to brief a case, outline, use lexis/westlaw, spot issues and all that stuff. But everybody won't get an A on the exam because it is one thing to take an exam when you are only being graded objectively, it is completely different when your essay grade depends on how 200+ other eually intelligent students wrote at the same time on the same issues.

I bet a Law School would be a lot different for smart people if there were no curve.
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Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2009, 07:15:18 AM »

When people say that you can't prepare for Law School as a 0L, they mean that you can't do anything during the summer that will give you an advantage over your classmates during the summer.

 

I bet a Law School would be a lot different for smart people if there were no curve.

Yep. And amen to the bolded.


Eh, don't be jealous yet- it aint out yet and there's a major hold up since I feel weird about advising folks to prepare during the summer. If I did "sell out" (no pun intended) it would have been in bookstores already. Yeah once it drops, I certainly will come to the board and tell folks the title and to run out and buy 10 copies each on the BLSDB-love tip!  ;)
I do agree with you that Planet law school does talk about some things that are too early for a 0L as it goes into what goes down as a 2L and 3L.  My book centers on 1L and is written primarily for 1Ls and 0Ls. 
 Haven't read "Expert Learning" myself but it looked interesting. Have you heard of LEEWS (Legal Essay Exam Writing System) by Wentworth Miller - it's a primer book and CDs/live program.

Yea Expert Learning is great in my opinion. Who knew all A students weren't born a genious lol. As far as preping for the summer, I am obviously an 0L and dont have much authority to make statements like this, but when I first started everyone told me there is nothing you can do to prep for school in the summer. But now after going half way through this program, I will have to say I have to disagree. I am only half way done and I am already learning how to brief cases; spot issues; synthesize cases; learning how to utilize lexis and westlaw; writing legal memos; taking hypo exams and evaluating the answers and etc. I just dont know how that can not be considered a MAJOR advantage over some one who did not have some idea of these things on day one. But who knwos maybe this looking back this will be one of my dumb thing I said as an 0L

Get the book out, stop trying to hold out on us 0L's out there, its def good to hear you are actually focusing on 0Ls and 1Ls. And I see your point on the anonymus tip, Lord knows wuteva organization I end up associating with will want to clear themselves of my off the record comments.

I havent heard of LEEWS. This guy named Micheal Shwarts came in and did some presentation on IRAC methods and some speaker came in and gave us a program called ASPHEN LAW (I dont know if you heard of it) and it was really helpful with exam taking. What is it? it sounds interesting? or do I have to buy your book first? lol




LOL- no, but buy my book anyway.  LEEWS is pretty interesting and comes highly recommended by most people.  I met the creator dude in person once- he seems to genuinely care about people finding the light through the fog that is law school. The program is pretty expensive around $175 during my first year and I don’t know if it’s gone up.  Just the primer would run you about $30.  I don’t think everyone needs it. And I think it applies mostly to “issue spotter” type examinations with multiple parties in the fact pattern.  But LEEWS does give some good strategies.  It discusses how to read a case, how to think of cases in an exam focused fashion, exam tips, etc.   
But like all of these types of things, it may create a sense of false sense of security.  Just because you got your hands on it doesn’t mean that you’ll do well.  Why? (1)  Everyone else could have gotten their hands on it as well and you’re graded on a curve (2) just getting the material/supplement isn’t going to do any good if you don’t know how to use it properly. I think 1Ls kinda feel like they’re in the clear as long as they’ve picked up some type of supplement from the bookstore.  Like they’re “safe”.  As I’ve said in my book the knowledge aint gonna get in your head by osmosis!

Actually the law school discussion board  is in my book- not mentioned by name of course but there was one particular ‘incident’ that I wanted the reader to know about when it comes to online networking. ;-)
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Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2009, 09:01:50 PM »

Yea Expert Learning is great in my opinion. Who knew all A students weren't born a genious lol. As far as preping for the summer, I am obviously an 0L and dont have much authority to make statements like this, but when I first started everyone told me there is nothing you can do to prep for school in the summer. But now after going half way through this program, I will have to say I have to disagree. I am only half way done and I am already learning how to brief cases; spot issues; synthesize cases; learning how to utilize lexis and westlaw; writing legal memos; taking hypo exams and evaluating the answers and etc. I just dont know how that can not be considered a MAJOR advantage over some one who did not have some idea of these things on day one. But who knwos maybe this looking back this will be one of my dumb thing I said as an 0L



Classic.  Famous last words, young grasshopper.


When people say that you can't prepare for Law School as a 0L, they mean that you can't do anything during the summer that will give you an advantage over your classmates during the summer.

By the time you get to exams in December, EVERYBODY will know how to brief a case, outline, use lexis/westlaw, spot issues and all that stuff. But everybody won't get an A on the exam because it is one thing to take an exam when you are only being graded objectively, it is completely different when your essay grade depends on how 200+ other eually intelligent students wrote at the same time on the same issues.

I bet a Law School would be a lot different for smart people if there were no curve.



You beat me to it.

I will see this statement, and raise you the most important reason why studying during the summer does no good for 1L exams:

because you haven't met your professor yet.


You can spend the entire summer studying and memorizing that the tort of negligence is (i) duty, (ii) breach, (iii) causation, and (iv) damages and if your professor tells you during 1L that it is (i) bacon, (ii) lettuce, (iii) tomato, and (iv) sandwich, you better be BLT'in it on the final if you want an A.  Not only do you have to cater to your professor's substantive interpretation of the law, but, more importantly, you have to defer to his or her writing format preference.  Some professors want IRAC, some professors want RAC, and some professors want none of the above.  I had a crim professor, (no BS) who gave you X amount of lines for each answer, and your answer had to fit it within those 9 or 10 lines provided on the page because if you went over you were penalized!!!  I wish I was kidding.

So all of that to say, it's great that you're getting exposure to the general process of law school, but

(A) everybody starts from scratch on day 1, and

(B) the only grade that matters is the final


Speaking of which, Tru One brings up an excellent point that also f*cked me up during 1L - THE CURVE!!!  What folks don't understand about the curve is that you can literally score a 95% of an exam and still get a B or B- because that is where the curve is set.  My school had a strong B curve that was mathematically computed so that the majority of the class fell in the 2.95 to 3.05 range.  So that meant in any given class of, say 100, you had somewhere around 80 people who got some form of a B, maybe 10 people who got C's, and only 10 people who got A's, and the deviation between the three groups was LITERALLY just a few points on the exam.

Messed me up first semester, jack!


 

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Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2009, 09:07:25 PM »

Yea Expert Learning is great in my opinion. Who knew all A students weren't born a genious lol. As far as preping for the summer, I am obviously an 0L and dont have much authority to make statements like this, but when I first started everyone told me there is nothing you can do to prep for school in the summer. But now after going half way through this program, I will have to say I have to disagree. I am only half way done and I am already learning how to brief cases; spot issues; synthesize cases; learning how to utilize lexis and westlaw; writing legal memos; taking hypo exams and evaluating the answers and etc. I just dont know how that can not be considered a MAJOR advantage over some one who did not have some idea of these things on day one. But who knwos maybe this looking back this will be one of my dumb thing I said as an 0L



Classic.  Famous last words, young grasshopper.


When people say that you can't prepare for Law School as a 0L, they mean that you can't do anything during the summer that will give you an advantage over your classmates during the summer.

By the time you get to exams in December, EVERYBODY will know how to brief a case, outline, use lexis/westlaw, spot issues and all that stuff. But everybody won't get an A on the exam because it is one thing to take an exam when you are only being graded objectively, it is completely different when your essay grade depends on how 200+ other eually intelligent students wrote at the same time on the same issues.

I bet a Law School would be a lot different for smart people if there were no curve.



You beat me to it.

I will see this statement, and raise you the most important reason why studying during the summer does no good for 1L exams:

because you haven't met your professor yet.


You can spend the entire summer studying and memorizing that the tort of negligence is (i) duty, (ii) breach, (iii) causation, and (iv) damages and if your professor tells you during 1L that it is (i) bacon, (ii) lettuce, (iii) tomato, and (iv) sandwich, you better be BLT'in it on the final if you want an A.  Not only do you have to cater to your professor's substantive interpretation of the law, but, more importantly, you have to defer to his or her writing format preference.  Some professors want IRAC, some professors want RAC, and some professors want none of the above.  I had a crim professor, (no BS) who gave you X amount of lines for each answer, and your answer had to fit it within those 9 or 10 lines provided on the page because if you went over you were penalized!!!  I wish I was kidding.

So all of that to say, it's great that you're getting exposure to the general process of law school, but

(A) everybody starts from scratch on day 1, and

(B) the only grade that matters is the final


Speaking of which, Tru One brings up an excellent point that also f*cked me up during 1L - THE CURVE!!!  What folks don't understand about the curve is that you can literally score a 95% of an exam and still get a B or B- because that is where the curve is set.  My school had a strong B curve that was mathematically computed so that the majority of the class fell in the 2.95 to 3.05 range.  So that meant in any given class of, say 100, you had somewhere around 80 people who got some form of a B, maybe 10 people who got C's, and only 10 people who got A's, and the deviation between the three groups was LITERALLY just a few points on the exam.

Messed me up first semester, jack!


 



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Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2009, 09:21:44 PM »
I will see this statement, and raise you the most important reason why studying during the summer does no good for 1L exams:

because you haven't met your professor yet.


Exactly.

TruOne

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Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2009, 04:22:33 PM »
Speaking of which, Tru One brings up an excellent point that also f*cked me up during 1L - THE CURVE!!!  What folks don't understand about the curve is that you can literally score a 95% of an exam and still get a B or B- because that is where the curve is set.  My school had a strong B curve that was mathematically computed so that the majority of the class fell in the 2.95 to 3.05 range.  So that meant in any given class of, say 100, you had somewhere around 80 people who got some form of a B, maybe 10 people who got C's, and only 10 people who got A's, and the deviation between the three groups was LITERALLY just a few points on the exam.

People really don't understand that the CURVE is what separates lawyers who work for Cravath from lawyers who work for Jimmy Jack Johnson and Associates.

Students think that because they graduated from the top of their class in Undergrad that they are GUARANTEED to be at the top of the curve because they are going to stay in the library longer than everybody else, and they are going to get the BETTER supplements than everybody else.

It is the the CURVE that will make you cry when you get your grade back in January, and there really isn't anything you can do about it except pray that your professor is feeling generous enough to take you out the B+ category and give you a coveted A.


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Re: Dumb things that we said as 0L's
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2009, 01:21:29 PM »
Well well, I see lets school this 0L seminar has started lol and the references such as "young grasshoper" starting to come out lol, I feel like I am a freshman on the basketball team all over again lol

Truone & Sands, I see you put my typo on blast like that lol, its all good though I see how yall upperclassmen treating a young "grasshopers" lol. But I get your point that since its only one final, everyone will catch up in regards to technical parts of the lawschool aspect. And for me to argue other wise based on what I think it will be when people who have been through it tell me other wise, will be foolish and a bit naive. But to go down swinging I was looking at from the perspective of "thinking and writing like a lawyer". I felt like it is a mind set you never master and the longer your train yourself the quicker and the better you get at it. I guess that is more of a personal development. Also I was thinking mostly everyone will be on the same level intellectual abiliites and work ethic. Therefore having any kind of advantage, even a slim one, will make the difference of getting those extra few points who sets you apart from the curve. However since you guys have actually gone through the process, I will have to accept your inputs until the time comes for me to speak from first hand experience.


P.S on the curve comment, we just had some of writing assignment grades, graded on a curve, back and lets just say some people are not as "friendly" as they were in the beginning lol. I never seen a line form so quick behind a professor as the day we got our grades back lol
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