Law School Discussion

Why Does Torture Bother So Many People?

Julie Fern

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Re: Why Does Torture Bother So Many People?
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2009, 04:52:08 PM »
torture illegal.  period.

what more need?

Re: Why Does Torture Bother So Many People?
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2009, 05:10:14 PM »
President Obama mentioned how P.M. Churchill did not allow the torture of German POW's in WWII, despite the fact that Britain was being regularly bombed by German aircraft.
Historically, however, the anti-torture position is more strongly supported when the combatants look alike (just as social safety nets are more commonly accepted in homogeneous societies).  If the bulk of the detainees were white Europeans, how do you think the public response would be different?

Miss P

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Re: Why Does Torture Bother So Many People?
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2009, 05:31:19 PM »
Oh, for Pete's sake, Wally.  [tag]

mugatu

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Re: Why Does Torture Bother So Many People?
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2009, 05:33:16 PM »
Well, you know, people go to law school.  That's like torture, right?

goaliechica

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Re: Why Does Torture Bother So Many People?
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2009, 05:37:10 PM »
In fairness, while I am not equivocal about condemning torture, I think it's a fair question to ask* and  good conversation to have. It's easy to take first principles for granted, and it's worth sitting down and thinking critically about.

*Although in classic Wally manner, he has not asked it in a neutral "let's have a conversation" type of way. I'm willing to chalk that up to grandstanding  :P

bl825

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Re: Why Does Torture Bother So Many People?
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2009, 05:46:04 PM »
I think it's hard to argue for any kind of "principles" or "dignity" when discussing torture. Our country trains a large group of people to kill others because they are from another country. That's what war is. We blow people up, stab them, shoot them, drop bombs on them, etc. To me, using harsh interrogation techniques is just a nasty side note of this unfortunate reality. It's hard to see the logic in thinking its ok to disembowel somebody on the battlefield, but it's not ok to hold a wet towel on their face. It's all equally horrible.

It just occurred to me, btw, that this reminds me a lot of John Locke's rationalization for why slavery is okay.  "We can kill people, so we can do something less bad to them."

Scentless Apprentice

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Re: Why Does Torture Bother So Many People?
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2009, 08:11:14 PM »
I think it's hard to argue for any kind of "principles" or "dignity" when discussing torture. Our country trains a large group of people to kill others because they are from another country. That's what war is. We blow people up, stab them, shoot them, drop bombs on them, etc. To me, using harsh interrogation techniques is just a nasty side note of this unfortunate reality. It's hard to see the logic in thinking its ok to disembowel somebody on the battlefield, but it's not ok to hold a wet towel on their face. It's all equally horrible.

It just occurred to me, btw, that this reminds me a lot of John Locke's rationalization for why slavery is okay.  "We can kill people, so we can do something less bad to them."

Well, I don't know if I agree with those words. I'm equally against war, torture, and slavery. I'm pretty sure you are as well, based on some of your previous comments. I would write more, but I'm feeling incredibly inarticulate at the moment. I imagine there are some people on this board who think I'm like that all the time in all of my posts. Oh well.

bl825

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Re: Why Does Torture Bother So Many People?
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2009, 08:14:54 PM »
I think it's hard to argue for any kind of "principles" or "dignity" when discussing torture. Our country trains a large group of people to kill others because they are from another country. That's what war is. We blow people up, stab them, shoot them, drop bombs on them, etc. To me, using harsh interrogation techniques is just a nasty side note of this unfortunate reality. It's hard to see the logic in thinking its ok to disembowel somebody on the battlefield, but it's not ok to hold a wet towel on their face. It's all equally horrible.

It just occurred to me, btw, that this reminds me a lot of John Locke's rationalization for why slavery is okay.  "We can kill people, so we can do something less bad to them."

Well, I don't know if I agree with those words. I'm equally against war, torture, and slavery. I'm pretty sure you are as well, based on some of your previous comments. I would write more, but I'm feeling incredibly inarticulate at the moment. I imagine there are some people on this board who think I'm like that all the time in all of my posts. Oh well.

I guess that I'm more against torture or slavery than I am against war actually.  Against all of them in general though.

Re: Why Does Torture Bother So Many People?
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2009, 08:24:57 PM »
It's easy to take first principles for granted, and it's worth sitting down and thinking critically about.

*Although in classic Wally manner, he has not asked it in a neutral "let's have a conversation" type of way. I'm willing to chalk that up to grandstanding  :P

I agree with this.  It's good to discuss. 

bl825

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Re: Why Does Torture Bother So Many People?
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2009, 08:27:28 PM »
They say it's good to question accepted truths to prevent them from becoming dogma.  :)