Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: ABA Accreditation = Saturation or Protectionism of the Legal Market  (Read 1700 times)

vap

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1310
  • Attorney
    • View Profile
Every so often on this message board someone suggests that the ABA should restrict the number of law schools it accredits (or shut down some lower ranked schools) because the legal market is saturated with lawyers.  The argument is more prevalent on TLS and unavoidable on JDU, and I've seen it universally espoused by 0Ls, students, and graduates. 

On the other hand, I've seen bloggers and legal professionals complain about the ABA engaging in protectionist conduct, and the United States (via the Antitrust Division of the DOJ) sued the ABA for restricting competition. http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/americ1.htm

Where do you stand?  Should the ABA be more active in restricting the supply of lawyers, or should accreditation standards be relaxed (or abolished)?

Would tuition be lower if there wasn't pressure to attend an accredited school?  Would competency suffer?  Would government regulation of law schools increase?

nealric

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2261
  • a.k.a. Miguel Sanchez
    • View Profile
Re: ABA Accreditation = Saturation or Protectionism of the Legal Market
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2009, 09:08:51 PM »
I don't claim to know the best way to do it, but I do think we should strive to produce exactly the number of lawyers society needs. My feeling is that at the moment we are producing more than society needs.
Georgetown Law Graduate

Chief justice Earl Warren wasn't a stripper!
Now who's being naive?

ToTransferOrNot

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 183
    • View Profile
Re: ABA Accreditation = Saturation or Protectionism of the Legal Market
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2009, 09:43:08 PM »
If tuition isn't forced down by the Cooleys of the world, no proliferation of law schools is going to take care of it.

Suing the ABA is laughable- do you see anyone suing the AMA? The ABA should be doing precisely what the AMA does.

vap

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1310
  • Attorney
    • View Profile
Re: ABA Accreditation = Saturation or Protectionism of the Legal Market
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2009, 10:15:35 PM »
If tuition isn't forced down by the Cooleys of the world, no proliferation of law schools is going to take care of it.

I was browsing the tuition at a couple of unaccredited schools in CA, and tuition ranged from $4K to $7K per year.  Someone on TLS suggested California might be a good model.  Make a legal education plentiful and cheap and make the bar exam the controlling factor for entry into the legal profession (rather than high tuition/debt).  If I'm not mistaken, this is how the accountant profession works, right?  Easy qualifications to take the CPA exam, but the exam itself is difficult?

squireJons

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17
  • beware the law school scam
    • View Profile
    • lawschoolscam.blogspot.com
Re: ABA Accreditation = Saturation or Protectionism of the Legal Market
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2009, 10:35:10 AM »
Beware of the Law School Scam, kids!
see http://www.lawschoolscam.blogspot.com

Remarq

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
    • View Profile
Re: ABA Accreditation = Saturation or Protectionism of the Legal Market
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2009, 01:41:24 PM »
I think, and I hate saying this knowing I wouldn't be going without them, that the government has made it too easy to get loans for law school, and law schools know this so they charge insane amounts of money for tuition. The problem really doesn't seem to be that there are too many lawyers, it's that there are too many law students graduating with 120K+++ in debt and a job that pays 40K IMO. Although, I'm just an 0L so maybe I'm wrong.

Pop Up Video

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 7275
    • View Profile
Re: ABA Accreditation = Saturation or Protectionism of the Legal Market
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2009, 02:09:48 PM »
I think, and I hate saying this knowing I wouldn't be going without them, that the government has made it too easy to get loans for law school, and law schools know this so they charge insane amounts of money for tuition. The problem really doesn't seem to be that there are too many lawyers, it's that there are too many law students graduating with 120K+++ in debt and a job that pays 40K IMO. Although, I'm just an 0L so maybe I'm wrong.

This is mostly the way I see it. More lawyers could drive down legal costs even further for the consumer. The problem is that a lot of the new lawyers making $30k/year have student loans >$100k. Opening more law schools isn't immediately going to provide a solution to the debt issue which I think is the bigger problem.

bl825

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 693
  • There are just so many reasons to smile.
    • View Profile
Re: ABA Accreditation = Saturation or Protectionism of the Legal Market
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2009, 02:16:59 PM »
I think, and I hate saying this knowing I wouldn't be going without them, that the government has made it too easy to get loans for law school, and law schools know this so they charge insane amounts of money for tuition. The problem really doesn't seem to be that there are too many lawyers, it's that there are too many law students graduating with 120K+++ in debt and a job that pays 40K IMO. Although, I'm just an 0L so maybe I'm wrong.

Hmmm.  We could blame government for allowing law schools to charge insane tuitions.  Or we could blame law schools for charging insane tuitions.  The latter seems more... direct.

Oh yea...you're delicious and lean, but unsustainable and not to be consumed daily.

Pop Up Video

  • LSD Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 7275
    • View Profile
Re: ABA Accreditation = Saturation or Protectionism of the Legal Market
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2009, 02:19:27 PM »
I think, and I hate saying this knowing I wouldn't be going without them, that the government has made it too easy to get loans for law school, and law schools know this so they charge insane amounts of money for tuition. The problem really doesn't seem to be that there are too many lawyers, it's that there are too many law students graduating with 120K+++ in debt and a job that pays 40K IMO. Although, I'm just an 0L so maybe I'm wrong.

Hmmm.  We could blame government for allowing law schools to charge insane tuitions.  Or we could blame law schools for charging insane tuitions.  The latter seems more... direct.


Easy access to loans, I think, has pushed up costs of education. People don't usually pump up prices for things at double the rate of inflation unless there is a supply of easy money that allows them to do it, e.g., housing prices 2003-2007.

bl825

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 693
  • There are just so many reasons to smile.
    • View Profile
Re: ABA Accreditation = Saturation or Protectionism of the Legal Market
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2009, 02:21:25 PM »
I think, and I hate saying this knowing I wouldn't be going without them, that the government has made it too easy to get loans for law school, and law schools know this so they charge insane amounts of money for tuition. The problem really doesn't seem to be that there are too many lawyers, it's that there are too many law students graduating with 120K+++ in debt and a job that pays 40K IMO. Although, I'm just an 0L so maybe I'm wrong.

Hmmm.  We could blame government for allowing law schools to charge insane tuitions.  Or we could blame law schools for charging insane tuitions.  The latter seems more... direct.


Easy access to loans, I think, has pushed up costs of education. People don't usually pump up prices for things at double the rate of inflation unless there is a supply of easy money that allows them to do it, e.g., housing prices 2003-2007.

I'm not saying there isn't an enabling effect due to the easy access to loans.  But it's not what I would call the immediate cause of the problem, or the most effective lever to push to remedy the situation.  ;)

Oh and Remarq I'm curious as to what the text in your avatar says. 
Oh yea...you're delicious and lean, but unsustainable and not to be consumed daily.