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Author Topic: prosecute torturers!  (Read 8449 times)

Scentless Apprentice

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Re: prosecute torturers!
« Reply #70 on: April 22, 2009, 07:09:03 PM »
I agree with the first part. Whether a "do unto others.." applies, or is relevant, I really don't know. Kind of silly in an international military conflict...probably more useful in interpersonal relationships.

it have do with respect and credibility.

Haha! This is the same country that enslaved people for generations and killed who knows how many Indians. Don't be so naive, Julie! If we had always been so respectful and credible, we'd probably be speaking either Japanese or German right now.

believe it or not, despite its many imperfections u.s. has been viewed, buy many, as moral leader among nations. and what we did about japanese and germans generally considered one our better hours.


Sure, I wasnt trying to say they are bad things. I don't think it's a leap of the imagination to suspect that there may have been some shady tactics going on..

alert media again.

You win!
Birds of a feather flock together.

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Julie Fern

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Re: prosecute torturers!
« Reply #71 on: April 22, 2009, 07:10:00 PM »
I don't think it's relevant at all in terms of how captured Americans would be treated. Why not just say that we don't torture because that's just not something we do?

you one so intent on making this purely issue international law.

ever hear geneva conventions?

I think you misunderstand me, but that's fine. I'm just saying that the best justification for making torture illegal, under domestic or international law, is that it is contrary to our beliefs about the way people should treat each other. If it prevents our enemies from torturing captured Americans, that's great. But even if it doesn't, there's reason enough to make it illegal.

if that what you mean, then julie have no quarrel with that.

but that not what said, either.

LOL. Would you be so kind as to allow me to clarify and say that the above is what I meant? :)

ok, sure.  be reasonable about it and derail excellent argument.

Scentless Apprentice

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Re: prosecute torturers!
« Reply #72 on: April 22, 2009, 07:10:07 PM »
bl825, who is the person in your avatar?? It must be a TV/movie celebrity..I don't watch TV or many movies, so I'm usually out of the loop.

Blake Lively from GG.

Ohhh. How do you answer the accusation that you may have in your possession a pair of large sunglasses (Gucci or Prada) and possibly an oversized purse?

but no copy constitution.

This post marks the first time you've amused me.

Media status: alerted.
Birds of a feather flock together.

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Julie Fern

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Re: prosecute torturers!
« Reply #73 on: April 22, 2009, 07:10:44 PM »
I agree with the first part. Whether a "do unto others.." applies, or is relevant, I really don't know. Kind of silly in an international military conflict...probably more useful in interpersonal relationships.

it have do with respect and credibility.

Haha! This is the same country that enslaved people for generations and killed who knows how many Indians. Don't be so naive, Julie! If we had always been so respectful and credible, we'd probably be speaking either Japanese or German right now.

believe it or not, despite its many imperfections u.s. has been viewed, buy many, as moral leader among nations. and what we did about japanese and germans generally considered one our better hours.


Sure, I wasnt trying to say they are bad things. I don't think it's a leap of the imagination to suspect that there may have been some shady tactics going on..

alert media again.

You win!

of course.  but tell it to reporters.  (if only your phone in service.)

Julie Fern

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Re: prosecute torturers!
« Reply #74 on: April 22, 2009, 07:11:25 PM »
bl825, who is the person in your avatar?? It must be a TV/movie celebrity..I don't watch TV or many movies, so I'm usually out of the loop.

Blake Lively from GG.

Ohhh. How do you answer the accusation that you may have in your possession a pair of large sunglasses (Gucci or Prada) and possibly an oversized purse?

but no copy constitution.

This post marks the first time you've amused me.

Media status: alerted.

then perhaps your sense humor improving.  problem certainly not with julie.

bl825

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Re: prosecute torturers!
« Reply #75 on: April 22, 2009, 07:13:25 PM »
I don't think it's relevant at all in terms of how captured Americans would be treated. Why not just say that we don't torture because that's just not something we do?

you one so intent on making this purely issue international law.

ever hear geneva conventions?

And if you think that every statute raises an issue of upholding the Constitution, well you go on and think that. :)

julie never say "every," although would if specigic context checking presidential power, especially in military matters.

and you clearly have no familiarity with those torture memos, which are entirely about presidential power bypass statutes under constitution.

I'd be careful about making assumptions.  ;)

I agree that the proper scope of congressional and presidential powers is a constitutional issue, but the way you're discussing it doesn't seem quite right: it's a constitutional issue because there are statutes forbidding torture?  That's not right.  It would have made more sense if you said it was a constitutional issue because it violated such and such clause or amendment (I was thinking the Eighth).
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bl825

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Re: prosecute torturers!
« Reply #76 on: April 22, 2009, 07:14:00 PM »
bl825, who is the person in your avatar?? It must be a TV/movie celebrity..I don't watch TV or many movies, so I'm usually out of the loop.

Blake Lively from GG.

Ohhh. How do you answer the accusation that you may have in your possession a pair of large sunglasses (Gucci or Prada) and possibly an oversized purse?

The way I answer all accusations: no comment.  8)
Oh yea...you're delicious and lean, but unsustainable and not to be consumed daily.

bl825

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Re: prosecute torturers!
« Reply #77 on: April 22, 2009, 07:15:14 PM »
I think I need to reiterate that I don't think we disagree on anything substantive, Julie.  It's just in the presentation that we differ.  ;)
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Julie Fern

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Re: prosecute torturers!
« Reply #78 on: April 22, 2009, 07:20:10 PM »
I don't think it's relevant at all in terms of how captured Americans would be treated. Why not just say that we don't torture because that's just not something we do?

you one so intent on making this purely issue international law.

ever hear geneva conventions?

And if you think that every statute raises an issue of upholding the Constitution, well you go on and think that. :)

julie never say "every," although would if specigic context checking presidential power, especially in military matters.

and you clearly have no familiarity with those torture memos, which are entirely about presidential power bypass statutes under constitution.

I'd be careful about making assumptions. ;)

I agree that the proper scope of congressional and presidential powers is a constitutional issue, but the way you're discussing it doesn't seem quite right: it's a constitutional issue because there are statutes forbidding torture? That's not right. It would have made more sense if you said it was a constitutional issue because it violated such and such clause or amendment (I was thinking the Eighth).

well, sort of:  memos argue preznit inherent constitutional authority violate statutes against torture.  it not get much more constitutional than that.

and julie's assumption holding up nicely so far.

Julie Fern

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Re: prosecute torturers!
« Reply #79 on: April 22, 2009, 07:21:26 PM »
I think I need to reiterate that I don't think we disagree on anything substantive, Julie. It's just in the presentation that we differ. ;)

well, and also details. but apparently we come out same rabbit-hole in end.