Quote from: Buffy on April 23, 2009, 03:15:16 PMQuote from: Mr. Linderman on April 23, 2009, 03:09:49 PMIt doesn't make us foolish to expect us to try to avoid torture. Its foolish if we believe it will actually work. On a side note, I am vehemently against torture of people who are innocent of crimes, or people who fight against us legally under the rules of war, but for people who are terrorists and are illegally fighting us i could care less what happens to them.Somehow, I don't think we wait until there's been a jury trial and the person is found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt before we start to torture.Then there's that whole pesky "found guilty now, but was really innocent" thing...So I guess my (rather long-winded) point is that it's pretty difficult to guarantee that the person is 100%, beyond a shadow of a doubt guilty. And even if the person was guilty, this goes back to HB's earlier point about torture being an ineffective method for obtaining information. So if it's not for informational purposes, exactly what is the point of the torture? Just for shits and giggles? Retribution? Either reason isn't acceptable, IMO.The quote you bolded didn't really pertain to terrorism in general. I should have explained it better. I meant that more of a Spanish Inquisition type torture where they just go around and do it for the hell of it.As for torture in general, I don't believe its the best way to get information, and is for the most part ineffective. However if it works 1 time in 1000, on someone who the evidence points to them most likely being a terrorist, then its worth it. My whole point wasn't really for or against terrorism per se, I just wanted to state my opinion that I could care less what happens to a partisan guerilla, which is what terrorists are.Now its Lindy Nap time
Quote from: Mr. Linderman on April 23, 2009, 03:09:49 PMIt doesn't make us foolish to expect us to try to avoid torture. Its foolish if we believe it will actually work. On a side note, I am vehemently against torture of people who are innocent of crimes, or people who fight against us legally under the rules of war, but for people who are terrorists and are illegally fighting us i could care less what happens to them.Somehow, I don't think we wait until there's been a jury trial and the person is found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt before we start to torture.Then there's that whole pesky "found guilty now, but was really innocent" thing...So I guess my (rather long-winded) point is that it's pretty difficult to guarantee that the person is 100%, beyond a shadow of a doubt guilty. And even if the person was guilty, this goes back to HB's earlier point about torture being an ineffective method for obtaining information. So if it's not for informational purposes, exactly what is the point of the torture? Just for shits and giggles? Retribution? Either reason isn't acceptable, IMO.
It doesn't make us foolish to expect us to try to avoid torture. Its foolish if we believe it will actually work. On a side note, I am vehemently against torture of people who are innocent of crimes, or people who fight against us legally under the rules of war, but for people who are terrorists and are illegally fighting us i could care less what happens to them.
Quote from: Mr. Linderman on April 23, 2009, 03:33:58 PMQuote from: Buffy on April 23, 2009, 03:15:16 PMQuote from: Mr. Linderman on April 23, 2009, 03:09:49 PMIt doesn't make us foolish to expect us to try to avoid torture. Its foolish if we believe it will actually work. On a side note, I am vehemently against torture of people who are innocent of crimes, or people who fight against us legally under the rules of war, but for people who are terrorists and are illegally fighting us i could care less what happens to them.Somehow, I don't think we wait until there's been a jury trial and the person is found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt before we start to torture.Then there's that whole pesky "found guilty now, but was really innocent" thing...So I guess my (rather long-winded) point is that it's pretty difficult to guarantee that the person is 100%, beyond a shadow of a doubt guilty. And even if the person was guilty, this goes back to HB's earlier point about torture being an ineffective method for obtaining information. So if it's not for informational purposes, exactly what is the point of the torture? Just for shits and giggles? Retribution? Either reason isn't acceptable, IMO.The quote you bolded didn't really pertain to terrorism in general. I should have explained it better. I meant that more of a Spanish Inquisition type torture where they just go around and do it for the hell of it.As for torture in general, I don't believe its the best way to get information, and is for the most part ineffective. However if it works 1 time in 1000, on someone who the evidence points to them most likely being a terrorist, then its worth it. My whole point wasn't really for or against terrorism per se, I just wanted to state my opinion that I could care less what happens to a partisan guerilla, which is what terrorists are.Now its Lindy Nap timehow supposed tell one time from other 999?this tortured logic indeed. julie glad grown-ups now in charge.
I'd love to join this LGBT club. It's the Legos, Gobots, Barbies, and other Toys group, right? I'll show up with an armful of toys.
Saw dashrashi's LSN site. Since she seems to use profanity, one could say that HYP does not necessarily mean class or refinement.
Oh yea...you're delicious and lean, but unsustainable and not to be consumed daily.
lol internet
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